Debating about PA vs MD?
Many pre-meds ask themselves, “Should I become a PA, or a physician?” We have complete respect for both fields, and believe that the PA vs MD question is definitely a personal decision. Knowing this, I interviewed my classmate Sundance; she had the chance to do both. She explains her decision-making process, as well as how both paths felt. The results are enlightening…
PA vs MD Student Interview
Sundance had two notes for me to add here:
- She misspoke about the hours she kept as a med (MD) student. It was 8-5, then study till ~midnight, not the 5-5 she mentions in the video (still pretty brutal).
- She would be very willing to answer questions about her PA vs MD experience. Just post them in the comment section at the end of this post, and I’ll have her reply. If you’d rather ask privately, you can send us a message through the “Contact Us” link at the top of the page. We’ll be sure she gets it.
The PA vs MD discussion is complicated – we would love to hear your thoughts about it.
{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
You get “weeks” off to study?? Did I take this wrong? That’s definitely not how it works in my program lol, I wish!
That is a truly awesome concept – I like that idea. I have no doubt no matter how the program does it, it is difficult, I had just never heard of that and wanted to make sure I understood what she was saying.
Paul, I was curious as to which major I should start off as in order to become a PA or MD? Is it a premed/biology that would take me to the path of then deciding on heading toward PA school or med school?
If your school doesn’t have pre-PA major (and most don’t), I think pre-med or biology are probably good choices. You should check with a few different schools. Some programs like diversity, and take a certain number of people from who have done studies very different from the pre-med curriculum. Probably more important than major is that you have taken the required courses and the quality of your performance overall. I’ll research this and maybe do a piece on it in the future.
Thank you so much. I am soon going to be graduation high school and I have run into a couple problems. I am unsure of what I want to do, still. And when I have a career choice in mind I am usually lost on how to get to that career (trying to pick the right major and everything)
Thank you Paul for bringing this to us! I’ve been a faithful reader since you started this blog, yet never posted. Sundance, thank you so much for such a clear, introspective, and honest interview. At around 7 minutes the talk about balance really hit home with me. Ocassionally I kick around the idea of med school as a goal, instead of PA school. I usually come back to not wanting to cheat my two children out of their fathers time while they’re young, also I have so many interests and hobbies, medicine being just one of them. I am a career changer at 35 years old, and hope to apply to a few schools this coming cycle, UCD being one of them. Thanks to the both of you for taking the time for this.
Thanks so much. I’ve passed your comment on to Sundance. As you can see, it’s something that really matters to her. And yes, balance is a very common theme in the PA vs. MD deliberation. When I first heard Sundance’s story, all I could think was: wow the world needs to hear this! Let us know if you have suggestions for content – we aim to please. And let us know how your path unfolds, okay? -P
What an insightful and from the heart interview.
Great job, Paul and Sundance!
Thanks, Rosie. We love you! Your blog is awesome too. Readers: if nutrition and sports/fitness is of interest to you, we highly recommend our commenter, Rose’s blog, Current Nutrition in Sport and Exercise. You can find it at: http://currentnutrition.com. It takes a village (of bloggers). -P
Paul,
I really appreciate you posting this interview of Sundance and her experiences with MD and PA school. Initially, I had gone to college planning on going to med school and had applied but had trouble getting in. I had a lot of confusion as to what to do and took a break from planning for med school to serve in the military. When I heard about the Army looking for PAs, I got curious and realized that that is what I wanted to do so from there, I learned everything there was to know about PAs. I’m happy to say that through a lot of hard work and remedial courses, (I’m in my 30s), I will be starting PA school this summer. I’m so excited to be joining this profession and hope to make a worthy contribution to it. I eagerly look forward to the posts, they are very insightful. Keep doing a great job, this is definitely the best blog I’ve read. And I want to thank Sundance again for sharing with us her experiences.
Wow, thanks – we’re so glad to hear you’re finding IPAT worthwhile. And SUPER CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU. It’s a huge job preparing for and getting into PA school. Please let us know how things go. We’d love to get more discussions going, and I think we’re reaching the point where that might happen – we seem to be getting more comments every day. All it takes is a few people who care enough to give their thoughts! -P
Hello Mercedes214,
My congratulations on your acceptance!
I am super thrilled for you. For what it is worth, I think PA school and the “30′s” are a nice fit.
I have no doubt you will be able to do all that you set out to do as a PA. Keep those sights high! I look forward to practicing with you, where ever you are.
Sundance
This was absolutely awesome!! Thank you so much! I can relate to Sundance when she referred to what the ego craves when it comes to titles. I come from a family of haitian immigrants. I started college in the criminal investigations field but at the same time I had a major interest in the medical field. Ever since I was very young my parents always seen me as the “golden child”, the child to deliver and change the whole family’s dynamic and that is major weight to carry. And due to this expectation, I’m hard on myself and my ego only expects the best from myself.
I am now 22 and by my passion and prayer I got into a 2 year Surgical technologist program. I was granted an interview with the president and surgeons of the program and was accepted the same day with absolutely no medical background because when I expressed what my passion, reasons and plans were, they signed and accepted me in that very moment. I couldn’t tell you how many tears flowed that day. God is so good. I graduate this year in August with my associates’ (since my other credits couldn’t transfer)and start my rotations in October. This program is extremely intense and I love it.
But I’ve been looking into the PA position since my first semester. I’ve contacted many schools and their PA’s for advice and I know 1 PA personally but this video gave me the assurance I was seeking and thirsting for. I was planning on visiting Haiti to aid in surgeries and educate them on ways of prophylaxis and in any other way I can as a CST(Certified Surg Tech). But I feel that with experience as a CST and even more education and having the position as a PA, I would be able to travel with Doctors Abroad and have the ability and freedom to do more. And it’ll be gratifying to be able to obtain more relation with my patients.
Education for me is insatiable. I look forward to learning for as long as I can and now I know that becoming a PA is definitely a sure thing. If later down the line I want to be an MD, then so be it. But this video taught me to not focus so much on my ego and wanting to obtain such a high status because of what society praises but to focus on what works for and satisfies me: which is being capable and have the power, so to speak, to have more “lee-way” in helping people as much as I can as well as changing my family’s dynamics.
I was the first and only high school graduate in my immediate family and I plan on being the first college grad. My parents works so hard for so little and deserve to retire and be happy and proud of what they’ve created, as soon as I can take care of them. And my younger brother looks up to me so much. My family is counting on me. I can’t thank the both of you enough for this video. Thank you so much.
Yes. The attachment to the title of Dr. is big for a lot of us. But Sundance did the smart thing and actually talked with doctors and PAs. Their answers were a little surprising. Maybe the title is less important to you once you have it, but I have to guess it works something like this: most people look up to doctors and put them on a pedestal, then when you become one, you realize how silly that is. Doctors are just as human as the rest of us. And if that’s so, being a PA isn’t any worse than being a doctor – it’s just different.
Hello Scarlet,
What a beautiful story! You are an inspiration.
May I just say that your passion for global health and medical service work are close to my heart. I had the privileged of doing some work in Kenya as a medical student, working with HIV positive women and children, and that was it! I came home with new found clarity, “this is why I am in medical school”.
The ability to do global health has remained one of my criteria in making the swap to the PA profession. It is my plan to find a job that, as part of my hiring contract, allows me a couple months a year to practice medicine in other parts of the world.
I am excited to think of all the wonderful things you are going to do with your life. More power to you.
Thank you for your story.
Sundance
What a wonderful video! I really enjoyed this and think that Sundance really speaks the same story for all of us in our passion for patient care!
Thank you Paul for doing this!
It really matters to her, and it seems clear how lost that message can get in medicine. Follow your passion, you know? Thanks for the shout out. -P
Wow this was truly inspiring and eye-opening for me. I’ve been struggling for a long time (about 2 1/2 years) as to what direction I want to go with in my life: PA or med school. People say I still have time but I still feel like I’m not getting any closer to making a decision. This has definitely helped though with my considerations. Can I ask if there are any other comparisons of the PA school schedule vs. that of med school? Is Sundance feeling she is slammed more frequently with tests in PA school or that the work is much more rushed? I feel people say, because PA school is like med school condensed into two years, the pace and lifestyle is hectic so it may be better or more worthwhile to have it spread out over four years instead? Also, are there PA’s who feel like their education and preparation to work in the medical field may be not as thorough as MD’s, especially those who may not have necessarily worked years as a EMT/CNA already and racked up all those HCE hours?
Thanks for your praise, and I’ll put your question to Sundance. Though I’ve never been a MD med student myself, I can speak to this a little — I my dad was a doc, my sister is a med student, and I’ve talked with a bunch of them here at Davis. Their curriculum is more detailed, and longer than PA school’s. But they have similar gripes to PA students: they thought there would be more lecture and instruction, and instead find that they teach themselves much or most of it from texts; they wish they had time to read much more of the material than they actually do; they often feel they retain very little while in school, and instead try to hold on to the concepts more than than the details, like a bear waiting to seize a fish that jumps from a rushing river. If I had to guess, I’d say that despite having twice as long for school, they feel even more rushed and inundated with material than PA students. But Sundance shared with me that as a PA she feels that although she is learning less about histology and genetics and such, she has actually LEARNED more about concepts that matter to her most (physical examination skills, patient care, etc.). So it seems to be a trade-off. But we’ll wait and see what she says – I’ll invite her back too! -P
Hello Undergrad,
Sundance here. Sorry it has taken so long for me to get to your question, it is such a good one!! And, aw man, do I wish I had a one-liner for you.
If I understand it right, your question is a broad one, but there is one thing I think I am hearing you ask, and that is, which would be a harder path, considering you might not have medicine in your back ground. I will say up front that this is a very personal decision. And for me, it had a lot to do with not only WHO I am, but WHERE i am in my life.
When I was posturing for medical school application, I was young (ish), slightly crazy, down for the all-nighters, single/dating, and with not much else in the way of prospects. I knew I was shooting high, but I had a “what the heck” attitude about it. Because my path was so long to get into med school, by my second year I found myself married (happily), tired (honestly), and then — she-BANG — pregnant! In second year of medical school, the hump is still ahead of you: third year is classically “hell”, where you are up in the hospital at 4am, and done perhaps sometime, or not. And then internship year — the first year of your residency (which all doctors that see patients must do), you are at the lower levels of hell, taking call, running all the patients, and not getting paid much. During these periods especially, it is quite impossible to have any energy for lifel outside of training. Shall we say that it was all quite daunting.
So that is the “life” part of the decision. Then there is the “personality” part, which is best fit for your personality.
If you like to know every fact, down to its core; the what, why, how much, etc. the non-abridged version, and you don’t mind being held to that standard in all things, that would point you toward med school (in my opinion). If you don’t mind being thrown in to the mix, and can carry the “I don’t know but I will try my best” card, with a good attitude in stressful situations, knowing your learning curve will be steep, then PA might be best.
Factors in the 2 years vs 4+3< years too. I know it is hard to see into our own future, but, for what it is worth, I believe that if I had done med school in my 20's, like normal people do, I would have finished and would be happy to be a doctor. For me, now, PA is the best road.
I can't wait to be with patients, and now I don't have to
Hope this helps!
Hello Sundance: Just viewed your PA interview w. Paul…..most excellent! I was particularily taken with your ability to envision what medical path you now chose to follow, and to articulate your position so clearly and wisely. Not an easy choice to make when faced with these great forks in the road! But you seem to have solved the dilemma, the uncertainty you were presented with, and in doing so, found the solution which allows you to be that trained caregiver within the medical arena, as well as be that wife and a mother which carries great significance too. And keep your dreams and aspirations alive and thriving!
And your video stands as a testament as well for other students of medicine who can now find inspiration in your own personal outlook, and thereby trust themselves to making those choices that are indeed the ones that shall be right for them! As you have done for yourself! Good show! And then stir in some of that Sunny Sundance persona and a winning smile, a touch of humor, to boot, and……..voila! An engaging and stimulating presentation!
Cheers, Ian (Swift)
I am actually coming at it from a different angle. I am a currently practicing PA making good money (six figures) who graduated in my 20′s, now in my 30′s with a wife and kids. Currently, I am hitting the proverbial wall. I have worked in gen surg, UC/FP, and now in observational medicine (cardiology). It is a personal decision and if you think there is more balance, it really depends on the field. PAs on EM work as much as the docs. PAs in surgical fields work as much as the docs. Unless you are in primary care, there generally is not a great life balance effect for PA vs. MD. But, that is just how I have seen it.
What can I say – this path doesn’t fit everybody. What do you enjoy doing most? Wall or not, before you go to med school, you should be sure that that thing that makes you get up in the morning is there as a physician. For some it is, for some it’s not. You also have to figure in whether that one or more positive things you get out of it are outweighed by the downsides of being a doc. You’re further along the path than I am, but if I were in your shoes, I might take Sundance’s approach and do some interviewing of doctors. Ask them about what they love and hate about their work. It’s a little campy, but have you seen City Slickers, with Billy Crystal? In the end, he decided to recommit himself to what he was already doing, but to do it better and appreciate the things about it that he hadn’t previously. No judgment on you – I’m sure you’re a great PA. But if the field isn’t thrilling you, it doesn’t necessarily mean that MD will. Just my two cents. Keep us posted. We’d love to hear what you turn up. Drop us a line on the new forum, maybe! -P
THANK YOU Paul and Sundance for creating this video! Your interview put into words the thoughts that are racing through my mind. I’m so glad I found this site and I’m sure it will help me make my decision of whether to become a physician or PA.
I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, and recently graduated with an undergraduate degree. Like Sundance, I was so ready to devote myself to medicine and become a physician. Promoting and maintaining the health of patients was SO honorable and desirable a goal to me. Things like hobbies and time spent with friends/family I was willing to give up.
As I wait for my province’s medical school to tell me if I’m accepted to their program or not, I find myself thinking if I made the right choice. This totally shocks me! I never have these kind of thoughts! After getting closer to my girlfriend though, I’m starting to realize there are things other than being a physician I want. It makes me feel less selfish to hear that others have these thoughts as well.
Your video has made me realize that being a PA is another way to benefit patients as well. Perhaps it would allow me to achieve the balance I so desire (and my girlfriend already has lol ). Please keep us posted with your adventures as PA students, and eventually wonderful PAs!
Also, maybe it’s early to ask you, but what the relationship is like between nurses and physician assistants? Do they get along? Is there any animosity between them because of differences in pay, or responsibility?
Thanks again,
Barry
Don’t know if the question thread is still available, but what did Sundance do for her HCE?
I passed your question on to Sundance, since I didn’t know the answer. Good question!
Hi Sundance and Paul,
First of all I wanted to say thank you for posting this video! It is really interesting to hear another perspective from a non-traditional student in the medical field. I have a few questions regarding the choice between PA and other medical careers and also about becoming a PA in general. I love and have always loved science. I have debated the idea of becoming a vet or md my entire life. I knew I wanted to do one or the other, but I couldn’t decide between working with humans or animals. When I was accepted to vet school I decided that I would take my position there and that would be it, no longer giving thought to med school. I found out I was pregnant the last semester of my undergrad, 4 months before entering vet school. I was told that I would have to defer vet school for a year and the school considered not allowing me to return. Months I waited to hear from the vet school. While waiting for the vet schools decision, I really began to consider the debt incurred by vet students compared to free-time/salary. Everything in my life changed the second I knew I was pregnant. Like Sundance, my career is very important to me, but so is time outside of work. I am having a hard time letting the title of “doctor” go after putting years of effort trying to get into vet school. I started looking into PA school as a healthier/realistic option (for me). I am fearful I will end up finishing PA school and then wishing I would have made vet school work. How did you deal with letting go of med school?
In general a few questions about getting into PA school. I have a degree in microbiology from a decent university. My grades tanked my last year because I had mono my first semester and extreme morning sickness my second semester. All of my pre-reqs for PA school that I did complete within my degree I have A’s in. When I began getting into more advanced classes–virology, immunology, Eukaryotic cell biology etc. I had straight C’s. I know this isn’t great and I am sure under different circumstances I would have gotten an A. I also did subpar on my GRE, 1170. I have no medical experience and understand that I will probably need to become a phlebotomist etc. (My husband is a paramedic and is trying to push me away from EMS.) To even get into PA school I will need to take about a year or so of classes (physio, anatomy, med term etc). I am sure I will be able to get A’s in those classes. Do I even stand a chance of getting into PA school? If I decide on PA school, where should I go from here? How can I make myself a better candidate? I worked in a lab for 2 years so I have research experience (not published, unfortunately), but I was told that that really is not significant to PA schools.
Also, is there a difference between PA schools that offer a MS or PhD in Physicians Assistant studies? Should I try for schools that offer the PhD? Or does it not really matter? People have been pushing me towards the NP route also. What are your thoughts on NP vs. PA? (from forums I have read, this seems to be a touchy subject
)
Thank you for your help! I greatly appreciate any advice! I apologize for the length and detail of the comment. I am a bit verbose at times.
Jessica
Jessica – you bring up a lot of great questions about physician assistant education and the PA school application process. I’ll do my best to answer them. Have you checked our our forum? You’ll find even more thoughts in our young but growing forum community. You can find the forum at mypatraining.com/forum. Joining is free, and that way everyone can lear from your great inquiries.
As to your questions, here are my thoughts:
1) I’ll have to ask Sundance about how it was letting go of med school. Sundance was lucky enough to experience both PA school and MD school, but most of us have to make peace with the fact when we choose one thing over another, we’ll never experience the one we didn’t choose. That’s not so bad, but some of us have a voice in our head that says, “I wonder if I would have been happier if I had chosen PA?” or “I wonder if I would have been happier if I had chosen MD?” You can drive yourself crazy with these thoughts. As a former therapist and teacher of psychology, I’ll tell you that there is much research evidence to suggest that the brain tends to adjust to like the path we choose, no matter what we choose, but until it makes that adjustment, doubts can plague us.
2) Do you stand a chance of getting into PA school? Of course you do. Want to hear the best advice I ever got about careers? Here goes: apply to any job or school you want, regardless of how qualified you think you are (even if you don’t meet the employer’s minimum qualifications – really!) Get out of the admissions committee member’s heads for a sec and let themdecide. Quitting the race on the way to the finish line is the best way to assure that you don’t get a medal. If that sounds like pop psychology to you, so be it – it’s the truth.
3) Where do you go from here? I say work on the parts of your PA school application that you have some control over. You can’t change the grades you have any more than you can change your eye color. Find great letters of recommnedation, construct a really impressive and well-considered personal statement (we have several articles on this). I think you should thoughtfully and directly address your grade deficiencies in your essay. Then get as much in-the-trenches medical experience with patients as you can find. Sound too broad? Then call and get information packets from the physician assistant training programs that interest you and get very clear on what types of applicants they are looking for, since each program has its own ideal candidate profile. Call them and ask what you can do to improve your application. Often they’ll tell you just what you need to do – but only if you ask. My program offered a “Webinar” where they addressed just what strong candidates look like, and then I went and followed their shopping list . It took time, but it really wasn’t rocket science.
4) MS vs PhD: there are few PhD programs in physician assistant science. The interest in these programs may grow, they don’t have a big draw now because of A) cost, B) time to degree, C) most people who become PAs do so because the want to get practicing, and doing more schooling plus a dissertation only gets you further from that. You can sort of see this in the anti-trend of advanced training for PAs: there aren’t many who pursue advanced specialty training (residencies, fellowships, etc.) as PAs because most PAs want to practice, and because the beauty and strength of the physician assistant role is its versatility and ability to move from setting to setting. “Super-specializing” kind of defeats this purpose.
If you are wondering about certificate vs. Masters, I say either will get you practicing, but get a masters if you have a choice. Someday in the near future, PA will (in all schools) be a gradate degree, and a bachelor’s degree will be a functional minimum. At that poipnt, practicing PAs who have only the certificate will be “grandfathered” in, so don’t worry about being closed out of the profession by getting a certificate in PA science. It doesnt matter much at all in terms of jobs and what you can do. In terms of being able to teach one day or impress people with letters after your name, an MS can be a boost. But again, focus on what you want. Is it to be a practicing physician assistant? If so, then this question is not so important.
5) NP vs PA: if you don’t have a bachelor’s or masters in nursing (BSN or MSN) now, you will need to get one in order to become an NP. My take: unless you are already in nursing, do yourself a favor and get a PA; it’s a much more direct route to becoming a mid-level provider (2 to 3 years more direct!) Which is better? We’ve talked about this in other posts too, but the short answer is that in most states they are about the same, or equivalent. In terms of what you can do with them, again, there really isn’t much difference (some hospitals prefer one or the other, but there isn’t much rhyme or reason to it). We have 98% of our classes with NP students, and they get the very same curriculum as the PA students, substituting two or three units each quarter that relate directly to nursing. Most of my NP friends feel that these nursing side classes are just hoops to jump through, and don’t give them any particular leg-up over their PA classmates. All of them are simultaneously working towars both NP and PA, since our program allows that, and they figure “Why not have both?” Six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. The NP vs PA debate is really more about philosophy than about ability or job duties. But the debate about this will rage on.
Great questions, Jessica, and thank you for getting involved in our growing community. I encourage you to check out the forum, and to register with Inside PA Training via email to be alerted to knew posts. To register, just go to the home page and complete the SUBSCRIBE section at the right, just below the red menu buttons. SUCCESS.
Thank you so much for this interview, it was so helpful and interesting. I’m going to be a sophomore in college and currently battling with medical school vs. PA school. I have shadowed a lot of PAs in various fields and really could see myself being a PA. However, I have had SO many people tell me, “if you’re young, you should go to med school. There is no question about it”. I love the idea of practicing medicine and helping patients, but enjoying my 20′s as well as having a happy marriage and children is also very important to me. Would you say that the PA profession is female friendly (more so than a physician career)? Is it true that PAs actually have more flexible hours, allowing perhaps for more personal and family time?
Thanks a lot for the interview and any advice is appreciated so much!
Jamie:
Most people say that you’ll have more family time as a PA, and I think that’s pretty straightforward. Is being a PA friendlier to women than being an MD? Probably. But I think being a PA is friendlier to everyone. Most people think becoming and being a physician is demanding. But until they do it, most really don’t realize the magnitude of the demanding that is the rule for doctors. If enjoying your 20′s as you mention is important to you, then medical school is probably not going to give you that. Many more dollars, 4-8 more years of training until you have a significant income, many sleepless nights, and true stress and strain on relationships. For some this is worth it. I have spoken with many doctors who have said, in essence, “The only reason I did it was that I didn’t realize what I was into until I was in the middle of it, and it was two late to change paths smoothly.” I have heard several doctors flat out say, “Don’t become a doctor.” or “If I could be a PA, I would.” Of course, there are those who say unequivocally that they vastly prefer being a doctor. But remember, almost no one gets to see what they’re missing, whether they become MDs, PAs, NPs, ODs, etc. The other point to remember: though becoming a doctor is easier when you’re younger, single, without kids, etc, does that mean that one should become one? Just because you’re younger? I mean, really? Not a great reason, as far as I’m concerned. But if you don’t think you’ll be satisfied with anything less than and MD degree, you really shouldn’t become a PA. Being a PA is demanding, and I would hate to think you went through it all and ended up feeling that you didn’t do what you needed to do.
PAs can be on call (depending on the specialty and setting), but are less likely to be than doctors. PAs have a more 9-5 job than MDs, but that usually still translates to 8-6, or 9-7, and very busy during that time. Easy it isn’t, but it is more in the realm of normal and predictable than being a physician.
Thank you for your reply! I am really considering becoming a PA, however I don’t understand how students coming straight out of undergraduate can compete with the older, second career applicants who have a ridiculous amount of health care experience. I’m currently an EMT-b and plan on working as one to gain HCE before applying to PA school when I’m in a senior in college. However, do you think it is more beneficial to take a few years off prior to applying to PA school? Do they discriminate against younger applicants because PA is typically a ‘second career’ profession?
I think it depends on the PA school. Some, like Stanford, seem to have a preference for younger students. UC Davis is a mix. I think if you have the HCE, age probably isn’t the big issue, but you’re right – it’s hard to accumulate enough HCE if you haven’t been out of school for long. I don’t think there’s any harm in applying, but you may have more luck in a couple years. Why not throw your hat in the ring and see what happens? There is more to an application than HCE…
GREAT article and right on time..although i must say that i am VERY passionate about science and still chose to purse P.A but Sundance hit the nail on the head. Blessings
Sundance and Paul,
Thanks for putting this up. I, too, am a medical student currently thinking of dropping out and going the PA route. I was wondering if Sundance would be able to answer some questions I have regarding the process of applying.
Thanks
Sure. Just put them in a comment and I’ll have her look at them. Glad you found the video helpful.
Thanks for the great video! Have been going back and forth between appying to med school and PA school (did all the prerequisites for both programs) but have just decided to do PA. I totally agree with the ego factor–the biggest hurdle was wanting that MD at the end of my name and wanting to prove to others that I’m smart enough and passionate enough to be a doctor but PA seems like a way better fit for me and allows for a more balanced lifestyle. Thanks for reaffirming my feelings!
I just stumbled upon this “blog” today! I’d like to say i’ve bookmarked it and spending an hour just looking at things has been extremely helpful in reconfirming my passion to try to be a PA!! I recently graduated, have a solid GRE/ GPA and currently am taking prerequisites and looking for HCE (very difficult to find though).
Anyways, my question is for Sundance. Knowing that you realized that life is about balance and that purely committing to an all day MD type of track which is more consuming than a PA track, what do you say in interviews or personal statements? This is the DECIDING factor for me about why I want to become a PA. HOWEVER, I’ve been always passionate about healthcare and medicine. I am truly excited about the prospect of treating patients and being hands on with treatment. I love physiology and the workings of the human body with providing care. I was wondering how you address this in an interview/ personal statement.
Also, what advice do you have on being able to gain more insight on learning about the PA profession?? (e.g. types of questions to ask current PA’s in informational interviews, experiences that are beneficial, things to think about). Thank you so much and I love this blog! Keep up the blogging Paul & Gabe!
Dear Jared,
Thank you for your interest in this blog — amazing isn’t it? Paul is quite the enabler.
So, about your question. It is a good one. It sounds like you are on the right track (following your passion) and are starting the mental self-training for the interview. If I hear you right, you are wondering: how do I speak to my desire for balance in an interview without sounding like a slacker or that I am not serious about medicine”?
Let me first say, I have NO IDEA what a PA admission’s board is looking for. My first piece of advice is really mom-ish, but I really believe that speaking from your heart in a setting like an interview will get you quite far. An under qualified person will put all their energy in an interview trying to sound qualified. But a truly qualified person in an interview will shine when they sound genuine and honest. I would put my vote on letting your guard down a little and being real. An “I don’t know” is perhaps an ok thing in an interview — it is vulnerability, which is a good trait.
It is also a really good job to be super informed about PA’s and your school’s mission. My highest recommendation resource (besides this blog) is a book called “So You Want to be a Physician Assistant”, but Beth Grivett ($17 on amazon). She is very active in the community and with a very clean and insightful perspective. I ended up cold-calling her when I was on the fence and she was incredibly kind and non-biased. She spoke at our White Coat last year, and is a cool chick in person too. The book is a must-read for anyone on your path.
Don’t model yourself to the school’s mission, but be able to give reference to it: not “I would like to work with the underserved populations in rural area where I live” (if that is exaclty what the mission says) but rather “I know this school has a mission that matches with where I seem myself ending up” or “is in line with my vision” or (and this is what I said) “I honestly don’t know what I am going to do but I do know that my most fulfilling clinical experiences in the past have been with the treatment of whole familes, women, children, and integrating socioeconomic challenge into the clinical setting” (the truth). You will note that this statement includes clinical or service experience. You need that.
Now, about the whole “balance” thing …
I don’t know. If you can’t go to medical school, then you can’t go to medical school (and that was my story. It was just not feasible, for my family or financially). And I said that. I would keep reading and meditating on your story until you have your party line down. It may take writing it out, trying it on friends you trust and asking for honest feed back, or doing more reading in the practice.
There is a lot different and unique about the PA profession. The more you can recognize and verbalize those things, the more genuine your “choice” will be.
Oh, and what ever you do, don’t say “physician’s assistant”. You will be outed for sure.
Best of luck!
Sundance
Do you work with Nurse Practitioners? and if so, how are they different or similar to PA’s?
I don’t currently, but I have in the past. Their scope of practice (what they do), at least in California, is exactly the same as that of a PA. Both can interview and examine patients, order and interpret labs and imaging, diagnose, treat (medications and procedures), and prescribe. So the major difference is their training. NPs get there by obtaining a Bachelor’s in nursing, then a Masters, and finally passing their licensing exam. PAs go to PA school (which usually requires prior medical experience like being a nurse, EMT, paramedic, respiratory therapist, medical assistant, etc) and pass their licensing exam. The nursing curriculum is based on the nursing model, and the PA curriculum is based more on the medical school model.
If it helps any, at UCD, the NP and PA students attend 90% of their classes together (the same classes). The NP students also have a few low credit courses that are specific to nursing.
Short answer: in education and training: some difference. In practice: little or no difference.
Leading from the last question asked, how much do you know about Anesthesiologist Assistants? From my understanding they are PA’s who are ‘specialized’ in anesthesia. Why is it that NPs and PAs don’t have huge turf wars but AAs and CRNAs do? And how do you see the AA field evolving in the next few years? Do you think it will parallel the PA field in its growth?
My knowledge of AAs is limited. Primarily because they are a very small piece of the pie. There are only 7 AA programs in the nation. It’s a fairly specialized field, and I don’t think it will have nearly the growth physician assistants. The reason PA are on the rise is that there is a huge primary care shortage. Surgery tends to be fairly impacted. Basically, anesthesiology as a much bigger appeal to graduating medical students than primary care does. For this reason, my guess is – though it may grow – it will still remain relatively small compared to the PA profession. Remember – one of the big reasons that PAs are blossoming right now is their versatility. They can move from specialty to specialty as the need arises, and they always have primary care. AAs don’t have that kind of flexibility. It’s an neat field, though.
Thank you for posting this! I think there are a TON of people who could use this information to help guide their own lives–myself included.
Towards the end of the video Sundance mentioned something about having to be published & doing research–is that a requirement of being a PA or MD?
Thanks!
Thanks! It’s about time for me to have Sunny on again for an update. She’s graduating with me in a couple months, and it might be nice (and helpful) to hear her thoughts a year after her first interview.
As for research, there may be some programs that require it while in PA school, particularly if they require a Master’s thesis (most PA programs are master’s programs), but it’s not a de facto requirement. Being published is definitely NOT a requirement – that’s too much to ask any student. But being published is a definite feather in your cap when you apply for PA jobs. The short answer: no, and don’t worry about it.
Sundance,
I am another PA who is considering leaving the PA profession for the medical school path. I think most of my dissatisfaction is in regards to our respective associations and their inability to prop our profession up. Nurses day, docs day, PA week. These are all days that have some meaning to people who practice their respective profession. The problem I have found is that many people still think we are medical assistants. The associations have done a really poor job at getting the word out in a manner effective for the masses. I have been practicing for nearly a decade and have seen little progression in the public’s understanding of our profession. Its actually quite disheartening. I work nearly 60-70 hours a week (not any less than my physician I assure you). I love my job. I love taking care of patients. It would be a lot more satisfying if people understood our role. The problem is at least 70% don’t seem to.
It gets very mundane. I am 36 and I am seriously considering returning to medical school. The reasons are simple. I do work as much as most doctors. We, as PA’s, do complete a vast majority of the work in our jobs and make significantly less. WE SHOULD ! We didn’t put the extra educational time in did we? The issue is not if you enjoy taking care of patients, but rather if you enjoy taking care of patients and getting very little in the line of recognition. The humble practitioner. I am all for it. I went into this profession because of the ability to do so much for people, but unfortunately I do require some modicum of recognition for all my hard work.
I believe many of us do want some recognition from the public for all that we do. Many are happy to just sit back, do a lot of the work, and get little credit. God bless you folks who can sit back and smile at people taking the credit for your hard work.
Some might be saying, “Well, you just aren’t working with the right physician.” My answer would be, “I disagree. I have worked with three wonderful physicians in three different fields for nearly a decade. ” Unfortunately, it seems that PA’s will always have this quandary.
I suggest any prospective PA take this into consideration when looking at PA vs MD. I still love my profession. The problem will always be that of recognition and acknowledgement. I don’t see this changing any time soon unless the AAPA gets on top of addressing this with the occasional TV spot or something similarly effective that explains to the patients what we do. Its my job to do so. I understand. But should I have to do this for 25 people a day for the rest of my life. No way.
Hi, Jason. Forgive me for such a long response, but I have strong feelings on this issue.
First, thank you so much for taking your time to share with us your inside perspective on the challenges of being a PA. Inside perspectives on the field are exactly what this site is about. I have many thoughts, not the least of which is that I’m not officially in the profession yet, so take all of the following with a grain of salt:
Recognition is obviously important to you, and clearly you don’t feel you get enough of in your work. There are all kinds of factors that can lead to that, but I’m not surprised that working with good doctors hasn’t changed it; it’s the patient recognition that you seem to be missing. I don’t blame you for holding that value near and dear to your heart, and if you don’t have patient recognition, the nicest doc in the world isn’t going to provide it for you. In fact, working for a good, caring doctor might make it harder, since the patients’ appreciation for their doc might sometimes leave you feeling less appreciated.
Although I’m not a PA yet, I am a counselor who is experienced in helping clients to find career satisfaction, and that being the case, I have a caution for you: be careful what you ask for. Weigh what you will lose along with what you gain before you make the jump from PA to MD. It may be that becoming a physician is the best thing in the world for you, but just as easily, it may not be.
If you don’t feel you receive enough recognition from your patients as a PA, you will likely feel like you get more as a physician. But you’ve spent enough time with docs to know that many patients have only blame and ire for their physicians. As for providers, there’s a seductive belief that having the position at the top of the hierarchy will make them happier – more power, more pay, more recognition, and so on. But what else? You’ve just watched Sundance answer this question, and to her, there was more satisfaction to be gained from NOT being at the top. To her it was about doing the work that she loves. Did you ever see the movie City Slickers? At the end, Billy Crystal’s character decides that rather than leaving his unfulfilling job, he needs to take a fresh look at it and do it better. If you’ve never seen it, I suggest you rent/download it. It’s a silly movie with a great moral.
I don’t think most of us, PAs included, fully understand the sacrifices that physicians make. Years more of study, several hundred thousand dollars of tuition, low pay for at least the first three years out of school, the stress having a very limited personal life, and the demands of managed are cannot be fully understood until you are neck deep in them. In fact, each of the 5 physicians who has precepted me has, at one point or another, told me — the actual wording varies, but basically — “If I could do it all over again, I would become a PA.” I always ask them why, and they usually try to explain what their stresses and demands are like. After a few attempts to explain, they usually become lost or distracted by the interrupting question of an MA, nurse, receptionist, or a medical billing employee who comes ask them about a problematic ICD-9 code, some new medicare rule, a letter of complaint from a patient, or something similar, and that’s the end of it. At that point, I start to see their point.
My point here is, being a physician might very well earn you more recognition from patients. But along with it, you must also accept the personal and financial stresses of your new profession – one that often takes so much time, money, and energy to enter that once there, few options exist beyond staying there. I don’t know about you, but I hate having few options.
I respect you hugely for examining this issue so closely, it’s clear that you have affection for your field, despite its shortcomings. I hope whatever decision you make ends up being the right one for you. Just go make it with your eyes wide open to the good and bad.
-Paul
I am a first-year undergrad and just 2 hours ago changed my path from MD track to PA track. I know I am young, but I have done so much research on the pros and cons of these two professions, I am almost sick of it! The concept of getting proper recognition for your job as and MD was what is making this so hard for me. Also, like Sundance said, the whole ego factor and knowing that I am a doctor was also part of it. I want to be a doctor, but I also want time with patients and I want a life. That’s the biggest thing for me. I want to live, and I fear that becoming and MD will prevent that from happening.
Paul, your response to Jason’s comment helped me a great deal in feeling confident about my decision. Just like you said, I have also encountered many doctors who have said to me that if they could do it all over again, they would become a PA. I feel good about the decision I have just made, and I will continue to read posts such as these to help me through the process.
Thank you!
I’m glad I could be of help, Olivia. Your knowledge of yourself is the insurance policy against taking the wrong path. I’ve known satisfied and dissatisfied PAs and MDs both. The thing those who are satisfied have in common is their understanding is that any job is what you make of it – nothing more, nothing less. If you commit yourself to being a capable, effective, and happy clinician, that’s what you’ll become, no matter what letters follow your name.
Keep us updated, okay?
-P
Hey Paul and Sundance,
I have really enjoyed reading your blog and was truly inspired by the video. I am a senior in college about to graduate with my B.A. in Communication; however, I have decided to make a change and possibly become a PA. Could you give me some insight as to the steps I would need to take before applying to PA school? Is my degree in communication useless? Will I have to get another bachelors degree?
Thanks!