Quick Health Care Experience for PA School?

Posted By: Paul   |   Health Care Experience

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Dear Paul,

I am currently completing my junior year of undergrad as a Biology major and I’m psyched about becoming a Physician Assistant. The trouble is, after looking at the requirements, it seems that every school wants to see something like 1000 hours of health care experience. Some schools even want 3000 hours! You see, I have none. What is the quickest way to get 1000 hours? I want to have things ready so I can start PA school in the fall after I graduate. Any advice? -Rebecca

Dear Rebecca:

First, let me say that I’m psyched that you’re psyched about it - your enthusiasm will take you far. Some variation of your question has been asked of me many times - enough times that it’s the topic of today’s post. The answer to “How do I get health care experience for PA school quickly?” is very important to PA school applicant success.

To answer your question, we need a quick review of where the physician assistant profession came from…

According to The Physician Assistant History Society, the first PAs were former Navy corpsmen (and later, Army medics) who had treated soldiers during the Vietnam War. They had extensive combat medicine experience and were skilled at field procedures and field medicine, but had never been to medical school. In fact, most had not been to college. Amidst a shortage of primary care physicians, it was a bold, new and pretty radical attempt to find a way to allow these very experienced professionals to practice medicine. And probably the biggest reason that it worked was that the American Medical Association members new that these guys (and later, gals) were experienced in medicine.

Fast forward to today. Though it’s hard to believe, none of the first PAs would even make it into PA school if they were applying today. At least some college is now a minimum requirement, and in most cases four years is the rule. They would, of course rock the health experience requirement. But today things have shifted a little more toward academics. You don’t need to be a battle hardened medic, but it helps.

So how do you accrue 1000 hours of HCE quickly? Well, if I’ve set the stage properly, you may already have figured it out. The answer is:

You don’t.

(at least, if you want to be sure to be accepted when you apply).

The health experience requirement is what separates people who are ready for PA training from those who aren’t. Most people don’t realize it, but it’s actually very uncommon for applicants to be admitted to PA school straight out of undergrad (there were no just-graduated students in my PA school class of 56). PA school is short - 30 months on average, and there’s just too much to learn in that time to let anyone in who hasn’t seen their fair share of medicine.

But don’t feel bad for asking; it’s what everyone wonders when they discover this amazing field. How can I jump through all the hoops and get started quickly? But I invite you to ask yourself a more important question:

How can I make more sure that I will gain acceptance to a physician assistant program when I apply?

It turns out that this question can actually accelerate your chances more than any other because it will help you get in the first time you apply and not the second, third, or thirteenth time. Asking how to make your application one of quality — one that can’t be ignored among a pile of those that can — can save you time in the end.

The takeaway?

  1. The goal is to gain acceptance to a PA program, not to get to minimum qualifications that will allow you to apply.
  2. The faster/sooner you try to get in to PA school, the less sure that you can be that your next application will actually get you in.
  3. 1000 hours of good health care experience acquired over a reasonable period of time is far more impressive than 1000 hours of mediocre health care experience acquired quickly.
  4. Patients want to be treated by providers who didn’t “cut corners.”
  5. Working 40 hours per week in a health care job for one year is 2000 hours. Even if only 1/2 of that time is with patients, that means you can do 1000 hours in 1 year.

In short, use your enthusiasm — and yes, even your impatience — to motivate yourself to use the time needed to become a strong PA school applicant, not just someone who is applying.

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115 comments

  1. It feels as if this article was written just for me! I have asked myself this question a thousand times without ever reaching a satisfactory conclusion. Thank you so much for this article! I had my first hospital shadowing yesterday and the biggest thing I took away is how much more I still have left to learn and that it cannot be accomplished in a matter of months. We are all racing against the clocks we have going in our heads, it’s hard to think that it’s a better investment in ourselves to take a few extra years to do things the right way. I absolutely understand the struggle!

    1. Paul,
      Thanks so much for your advice and information! I am 43 (gulp) and will get my BS in Health Science after one more semester. I want to become a PA, and am preparing to apply soon. I have worked as a para legal for a law firm for many years, and I work solely on social security disability claims. I read and interpret medical records daily and schedule exams and testing procedures with doctors/hospitals for our clients regularly. I interact with clients daily and the focus is mainly on their medical conditions during these interactions. It feels more like working with patients than legal clients. This is probably a crazy question, but is there any possibility that this may qualify as HCE? I would say that I and the attorney for whom I work have a vast amount of knowledge of medical symptoms, conditions, diagnoses, etc. I also think that interacting with our clients is comparable to being in a health setting as it is so focused on their medical conditions. Thanks for your help.
      Natalie

      1. Natalie: you seem to understand that this is not healthcare experience. That’s not to say that you won’t get any credit for the work that you’re doing right now, but it won’t be much toward the patient experience part. This is likely classified as quote other healthcare experience.” If I were you, I would talk to the attorney friend of yours and see if he or she could introduce you to some docs with whom he or she works. This could be a nice way for you to start shadowing and may be assisting on the side. You are going to need more healthcare experience than what you have now.

    2. Hi Paul,

      I am a second semester Junior at Colorado State University getting my major in Biomedical Sciences. My GPA when I apply will be above average (right now I have a 3.91 cumulative GPA-with 7 weeks left before I apply), and I feel that I have decent healthcare experience but I wanted to know what you think. This summer I plan to work with 5 optometrists and 1 ophthalmologist (as I did last summer and over winter break), as an optometrist technician. After this summer I plan to have close to 650 pure patient care hours in the clinic. I work closely with Doctors of Optometry, and spend about 15 minutes with every patient before I give the doctor my analysis of the patients’ ocular conditions. Typically, I see at least 20 patients/day. My duties include: gathering a chief complaint for the doctor, taking vitals, dilating, taking retinal images, taking visual acuities, reviewing allergies/medications, answering questions about contact lenses, glasses, insurance, etc. We see a lot of patients with cataracts, glaucoma, macular degeneration, etc.. and I have been exposed to the more medical/surgical side of eye care as well. My only worry is that I don’t have patient care experience with “sick” people. Many patients come with severe ocular trauma and disease, however it is far different from other injuries, chronic illnesses, rashes, etc.. that I would be exposed to with other HCE. What are your thoughts? FYI: my first choice of PA school is at the University of Colorado and they don’t “require healthcare experience”- however, the average HCE hours are still about 1400 hours. Is this so high because the average age is 27, and people have been working in healthcare for a while?

      To further share my “resume”I have about 50 hours total of shadowing with Ophthalmologists, Optometrists, Orthodontists, Retinal Specialists, and Orthopedic Surgeons. I have also volunteered 50 hours my last two years in high school with Orthopedic surgeons and nutrition services for my local hospital. Additionally, I plan to shadow at the hospital near campus for at least 6 months during my senior year of college (after I apply to PA school the first time). Finally, I plan to shadow many PA’s in various settings the next few months before applying to PA school.

      My final question: Will my high GPA help fill in any gaps with HCE? Should I try to get more HCE in a field with more “sick/medically needy” patients?

      Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing form you!

      1. All of your questions are essentially one: What should I do to prepare myself optimally.

        You’ve done a great job in school and with HCE so far. There is no “offset” for HCE with grades, although it’s possible to get into PA school without health care experience, but not bad grades. Sounds like you’ve had a lot of exposure to ophthalmology. I share your concern about being a “one trick pony” if you get the rest of your HCE there. If you love it, continue, but I recommend you find a way to put some other hours into the mix. ER? What else do you think you could get? Broader is better, and you have the eyes covered. Expand your horizons. It will make you a better person, a better provider, and a better applicant.

  2. Hi Paul, I’m enjoying this site. I’m a high school senior about to graduate and am wanting to be a physician assistant! I actually just started taking CNA classes so I can become certified and start getting the work experience. My plan is to work during summers, so hopefully that will get me the hours I need! Do PA programs want someone who works in a hospital setting? I know a lot of CNAs work in nursing homes and such.
    Thanks,
    Megan

    1. CNA is not the greatest HCE. But if you’re going to do CNA, you should make every attempt to do it in a hospital setting. You will learn and see more, and be exposed to sicker patients who have more to teach you. Outpatient nursing home employees are notoriously poor mentors for HCE. For these reasons, it makes sense to work in a hospital setting if at all possible.

  3. I took a different slightly route myself. Having finished my MS in an unrelated to medicine field in 2008 and later deciding that I wanted to become a PA at an “advanced” age of 28 faced with the reality of having to do all of the basic science prerequisites, the lack of HCE and being unable to find a position that would give me that experience, and the limited financial situation, I also asked myself the same question. While I have not applied and thus have not been accepted to any programs, I chose to get my EMT licensure as the cost and time commitment to gain the licensure was not prohibitive for me. I hope that all the effort I have put in the last 3 years taking my prerequisites part time and working as an EMT will pay off after I start applying this year.

  4. Hi, I am in the same situation as the student who posted the original question, I am a sophomore/junior in college, and I am only 21. But I was in an ADN nursing program, which I left in order to become a bio major to pursue PA school, once I realized that PA is exactly what I want to do. You definitely bring up valid points about taking your time to complete HCE, but I know a lot of students who go straight from traditional undergrad to PA school. So I really do not want to take much extra time off between the two. I have about 500 hours of clinical experience from my nursing rotations, but obviously need much more. So if you absolutely had to choose HCE to complete in a situation like mine, what would you choose? I have considered becoming a CNA since nursing students are eligible to take the CNA exam after passing 1 semester, but honestly, I really would not enjoy doing what CNA’s do, so it’s my last resort.

  5. Hello Paul,
    I am “advanced” age (40) looking to become a PA and specialize in being a psychiatric P A. I hold a PsyD but am not licensed. I do have experience in psychiatric hospitals. However, I have not worked in 7 years and I’m not licensed as I took time “off” to be a stay at home mom. Now I’m ready to focus on my career again. I’m wondering if I have a chance of being accepted into a P.A. program. Is there any advice you could give me to better my chances?

    1. I would suggest that you get back into interacting with patients, particularly in a traditional medical setting. You have psych covered, but that by itself probably won’t be enough. You don’t need thousands of new hours - just enough to show that you are committed and learning. You probably will need to retake some science courses if it’s been a long time since you took them. Maybe 1 or 2 at a time while you work?

  6. I recently just got hired as a CNA in the Operating Room in which I will be assisting the nurses. My training includes becoming familiarized with clusters/specialties surgery cases; orthopedic, ob/gyn, vascular, neuro/spinal cases. Do you think PA schools would consider this as good HCE?

    1. If you are working with patients, then yes. I assume part of your job is prepping, transporting or talking with the patient. It doesn’t all need to be that, but the more interaction with patients, the better.

  7. I’ve been working as a PT aide for a few months now. I’m stuck between whether I want to apply to physical therapy or physician assistant programs. So, I’m trying to ensure that my actions over the next year will benefit me regardless of which route I choose. Would PA programs consider working as a physical therapy aide good HCE?

    1. I would call PT aid “Okay” health care experience. You are working with patients directly, and in that sense it’s good. But you aren’t making many independent decisions about diagnosis and treatment. You might consider supplementing with something like EMT.

  8. I am working as a cardiovascular tech. I do ECG’s, Holters, event monitors and recently took a basic dysrhythmia class to start scanning the Holters and writing the reports for the Drs. I work all over the hospital and even in the ER. Is this good experience?

  9. Hey Paul, I am currently facing a dilemma I hope to figure out before tomorrow since I plan on meeting with the VP of Baptist Hospital in my hometown tomorrow. I got in contact with her via a mutual acquaintance, and she is looking to hire me as a medical scribe. First how would you compare the overall quality as a HCE of a scribe to that of a medical assistant (I know EMT-P is most ideal but am wanting to get my foot in the door ASAP to get the necessary hours)? Also, she already informed me of an ophthalmologist (who performs various eye surgeries approximately twice a week) that is looking to hire a scribe immediately. She also asked me if I was looking to get a more hospital or medical experience.. I did not know which would lead to more physician and patient contact, hence why I am meeting with her tomorrow. Lastly, I was initially preferring to work in the ER but do not want to pass on this opportunity (I need the hours as well as the money ASAP). I do plan on taking approximately 2 years off before attending PA school so was thinking I could do various volunteer hours as well as possibly a medical trip oversees on top of working as a scribe for the given ophthalmologist until accepted to PA school. I just want to ensure that this is a good plan. Thank you Paul!

    1. Jeff - I’m sorry I didn’t get to your question sooner. Working as a medical scribe is great HCE. I would think working as a scribe in a hospital would be more useful - it’s much more broad than ophthalmology. Also, ophthalmologists don’t hire PAs very often. But it would be okay too.

  10. Hey Paul, I just graduated with my B.S. in Biology. I have a 3.38 overall and a 3.48 in science. I have worked as an admissions specialist in many departments, (i.e. ED, main surgery, outpatient radiology), for four years at a private hospital. I have just accepted a full-time position as a pathology lab assistant at a major hospital in California. I have no shadowing hours of yet, but plan on starting that asap. I was also a McNair intern in a genetics lab. I have 3 strong references. I am applying for PA programs this summer.
    My question is does pathology lab assistant qualify as good HCE hours, and will a years worth of hours be good application terms? If not, will the research hours I conducted in a major organization possibly outweigh the few Patient contact hours?
    thanks!
    Laura

    1. Hi, Laura -

      Sadly, almost no laboratory work is not a substitute for patient contact hours. The only exception would be if your research had you working with patients, such as a study that required you to measure vitals or take patient histories. It’s a nice type of “Other Health Care Experience,” but PA programs really want to see that you have spent time working with patients. My advice: get out there as soon as you can and gain some patient contact experience.

  11. Hi Paul!
    I just completed my sophomore year of college as a biology major and have high hopes of going onto PA school after I graduate. Do PA schools consider working as a nurse’s aid as good patient contact experience?
    Also, is it acceptable to apply to a school if I don’t quite meet the minimum “recommended” hours of patient contact? Thanks for your time!

    1. CNA is okay HCE, but you really should try to supplement it with other types that are more independent (EMT, for example) and acute (ER, for example). Yes, it’s okay to apply to schools if you don’t meet their minimums. Obviously, your odds are lower if you don’t, but that’s where a strong essay can ignite their interest in learning more about you.

  13. Hey Paul, I am currently in high school and I want to pursue a career as a PA. I have heard of Pre- PA programs, but I do not know which ones are good. Do you have any recommendations or know of any colleges that offer the program?

    1. I’m really not familiar enough with them to recommend one. I don’t believe they are necessary and I have some concerns about the possibility of them making your resume look a little one-dimensional. Why not consider a science major?

  14. So I have an interesting “boutique” past experience of having worked for an organ procurement organization for six years. I was a program manager, which mostly meant a lot of policy development and program redesign, but I was also trained to respond to referral of TBI patients with poor prognoses and determine if they were eligible organ donors then talk to families if they were. This was about 10% of my job. Would you qualify this as HCE?

    (as an aside, I am currently working as an ophtho tech so I am really just trying to add any HCE I can to offset a bad experience in organic chemistry!)

    1. Interesting. I think to the extent that you were working with TBI patients, this would be considered HCE, possibly even the work with their families. I would claim it and see what happens.

  15. One of the best ways (that PA schools are beginning to LOVE) is to become a medical scribe. Most scribe programs staff scribes in ED settings, though many are branching out to specialties within hospitals as well as private practices. Everyone I know, whether they’re looking to become a PA or an MD, who has scribed has received excellent feedback from their schools.

    1. Scribe can be good HCE, yes. But it depends a lot on the environment where you work - what kinds of patients you see and what type of relationship your work creates with the providers. But overall, I agree.

  16. Alexander says:

    Hi Paul!
    I’m currently a sophomore majoring in Biology and would appreciate some clarification as to whether or not my experience would qualify as good HCE. I work as a Public Health Tech for the military and spend a lot of time taking patient histories for a variety of things ( pregnancies, ergonomic hazards, hearing conservation) as well as perform lighted ear inspections/ patient counseling. I also work in my father’s practice (he is a chiropractor) taking SOAP notes for him/ patient histories, as well as handle X-rays. I know that none of my experiences are the “typical” HCE, but thought it might still be acceptable? Lastly, would working for my father disqualify certain experiences as HCE? Thanks!

    1. That’s all HCE. But you can only count the time you spend with patients as “Patient Care Experience.” You don’t need to touch them - but you need to be in the room with them, working with them directly as opposed to over the phone, on paper, etc. The Patient Care Experience is the most valuable, but by all means, claim it all as some (the appropriate) form of HCE.

  17. Sena Able says:

    I know you already mentioned that it is uncommon for undergrad students to go straight into PA school. But if this is what we have decided we want to do, what advise can you give regarding how to best out ourselves in the best position possible to be accepted?

    1. You’re right - but if you are hell bent on it, the more health care experience that you can bring to the table, the better.

  18. I love all the comments and topic on your site. They have been helpful to me for the beginning stages of my quest for info on the PA topic. I have a similar situation as most… However, I am at a huge disadvantage as compared to the other posters. I am at a “ripe advanced” age at 35. I have no medical experience at all, but I have been very involved with the field of “mental illness” as a care taker for decades and as a volunteer in my community (NAMI). Aside from volunteering, personal experience, and my efforts as a die-hard humanitarian I had previously focused my adult/college years on “business.” I was a professional student for many years and completed college (up to this point) with the traditional AALA, AS in advertising, and BS in Executive Management which I have applied to co-owning, operating, and managing a manufacturing company for the last 10 years. Due to personal reasons I am in the market for a career change. I am extremely interested (aka hell bent on) pursuing a career as a PA, but I am unsure how exactly to begin due to my lack of medical experience. I have already taken many of the pre-req’s needed to apply to the PA degree out of personal interest in college. I also have an opportunity to begin training in phlebotomy, and I am/was considering taking the 1 semester for the CNA course/certification to kick start my plan. I read the article about trying to obtain HCE quickly, and I realize the implications of trying to do so. So I do not want to rush into this, but as a planner I definitely want to come up with a good strategy to become more appealing for the application process. I believe that I will do very well on the essay portion. With that being said, I would like to know what would be the best (and yes quickest without being dangerous) approach for me to begin pursuing this career choice. Where do I start? Do I take the CNA semester, begin volunteering at a local hospital, find a PA to shadow, etc… and then apply? Or just apply with my current bachelors in business degree and express my passion in the essay and hope for an acceptance? I am not exactly pressed for time, but I would like to get the ball rolling. And although I have spent many years obtaining “other than medical” experience I believe that this is a great path/career choice for me where I would excel. In my spare time I study endocrine systems, alkalinity, nutrition, physical fitness and health. What is your best advice for this situation? 35 year old business major with a life long interest in education, health, wellness, and well-being of others? any advice is appreciated. Thanks :)

    1. Hi Ryann!

      You really are so old. The average age for entrance to PA school in 2012 was approximately 27 years old. This makes you just a handful over average age.

      I definitely wouldn’t just apply and hope that your passion and your essay get you in. You will need to demonstrate to them that you have put in some hours to become familiar with the medical field and to demonstrate some of your skills. You can do this in many ways. You might start by doing some volunteering in an emergency room. EMT is another good way. CNA is not the best experience, but it is also a little easier to obtain so I don’t think that that’s a bad idea either. Basically you need to jump in and get messy, get your feet wet. My sister is a corporate coach and she likes to say that people with the most satisfying lives tend to have lives that are truly truly messy. Just like a person who’s enjoying a really good barbecued rib – they don’t worry about getting a little barbecue sauce on their chin. They dive right in.

      If you live in New York City you will constantly hear stories about people who want to become actors and actresses. Most of these people never will, but I’m always amazed at the amount of time and effort they are willing to put in schlepping burgers from midnight to dawn in order to make a living so that their day work can be chasing their dream. If you are hell-bent on becoming a PA use these people as your models. Do what it takes to get the experience that will get you in. Passion is a good thing, but by itself it is not enough. You must demonstrate your ability to act. No pun intended there. LOL.

    2. don’t worry Ryann, i’m 33 (going to be 34 this year) and i’m still finishing up my undergrad! i’m not too far behind you. just keep up the good work. stay motivated and determined to reach your goal, you’ll get there. i hope to get there too someday….

      -Patrick

  19. Paul had a great article on quality of HCE. As a former paramedic myself, I can vouch for the quality and agree that this is the top spot when it comes to HCE (albeit, not a “quick” route). There are exceptions to every case, and I may be one, but I applied to one school, one time, and was accepted. My undergrad was in health sciences as well.

  20. Hey Paul,

    i’m really hoping to get into the PA program after i finish my undergrad, in about a year and a half. i have been working as a pharmacy tech, in a retail setting, for the past 12 years and am too concerned with finding HCE. i am under the assumption that my pharmacy experience won’t count towards HCE, am i correct?

    this is a great site, thank you for all the information!

    1. Hey, Patrick. Pharmacy work does count as healthcare experience, it just doesn’t count as the all important patient contact experience. The idea here is that although you are exposed to medicine and medical concepts, such as the mechanisms by which medications work, you aren’t spending much time talking to patients directly. Working directly with patients does not necessarily require you to touch them, but it’s important to have this contact so that you know how to talk to patients and interact with them. PA schools look for this kind of thing in a big way. I would suggest you check out our forum at https://www.mypatraining.com/staging/forum, where there is a thread on healthcare experience.

  21. Dear Paul,

    Im a prospective PA student that has completed the CASPA application and working on supplemental applications. I have applied to 6 schools so far and plan on applying to more. What do you think is a reasonable number of schools to apply for? I have 1500 hours of HCE in scribing and home health aide combined, over 2,000 hours of volunteer hours. I have a 3.44 GPA and 311 GRE score. I believe I have a solid personal statement and great letters of reference. Let me know what you think.
    Thank you!

    1. I usually think of 6 schools as a minimum. If you are a weaker applicant, 100-12 isn’t too many. If you are in doubt, apply to a few more, as long as you have researched them and believe that you have a chance of getting into them. (There’s not point in applying to more schools willy-nilly.)

  22. Darnell Ferguson says:

    Hello, paul

    I’m 26 years of age I’m in my 2nd year of undergrad, going for a B.S in health science. I’m currently working as a surgcial tech in the O.R. I’ve been a surgical tech for 4years now. Will that put me over the 2000 mark? And also, will most or some programs let me in with qa B.S in health science or does it have to be a B.S in boloigy?

    1. If your grades are good, I think most programs would be comfortable considering you seriously. There are so many factors, remember - it’s not just grades and experience. But there’s nothing about your grades and experience that would turn off the majority of schools.

  23. Dear Paul,
    First off, thanks so much for the help you provide through this site — I can’t believe that you take the time to answer everyone’s questions. Really thankful for all the info I’ve had access to here.
    Like some others here, I’m also an older, non-direct-route pre-P.A. student (I currently teach college writing). I’m two to three years out from applying to schools, and I’m seeking out health care experience opportunities that I can do on a part-time basis (I have two young children who I want to be mostly at home with until they are both in school). Most of the opportunities I’ve seen seem to be full time positions, though. So, I’m wondering: Do you ever hear about people who do part-time work that would count as quality healthcare experience?
    Also, I keep hearing about medical scribes. Would you say that’s a better option than CNA? I’ve seen you give an opinion on both of those hear, but I haven’t seen a direct comparison? (I know that there are even better options than those two, but I’m thinking that those might be my best shots at part-time work.)
    Thanks so much (and happy 4th!)

    1. Sure, you can do your HCE part time. Obviously, it will take longer, but hey, that’s how things go when you’re a parent. Be sure to speak to all that you have done (simultaneously) in your essay to give them context and (hopefully) impress them with all you are capable of.

      On the HCE quality scale that goes
      excellent
      very good
      good
      fair
      poor

      I consider scribe to be very good and CNA to be fair.

  24. Dear Paul,
    I am a sophomore in high school, but I have been interested in eventually becoming a PA for a few years now. I’m one of those people who feel they need to have a plan; especially when it comes to education and careers. I was thinking about taking a CNA class this fall at a local technical college since I only need to be 16 years old to take the class. Afterword, I was planning on getting a job at a nursing home for the remainder of my high school career thinking that it would be a good way for me to gain medical knowledge, but after reading a few of your responses to other people on the website I’m beginning to doubt that option. My first question for you is: With being so young, is it possible for me to even get experience at a hospital?

    I am also confused about what I should be doing after high school. I have read so many websites and articles debating the possible paths to become a PA. Am I supposed to go to college for 4 years to become a RN and after a few years of experience continue my education to become a PA? Is it possible to take all the years of college I need to become a PA right after high school? I realize that I have time to think about my options, but I would like to know if I should be thinking about other career paths.

    1. CNA is not bad; it’s just not ideal. But at this point, I wouldn’t worry about patient care experience. You should be focusing entirely on getting excellent grades. Don’t let the allure of doing interesting things (working with patients) blind you to doing the most important things (getting A’s).
      There are some schools that will accept a student who does not have a bachelors degree, but they are fast disappearing, and I think stopping at an AA/AS is a mistake if you plan to work in medicine. Get a bachelors degree in a related field (not nursing; major in nursing if you want to go into nursing). Biology, anatomy, psychology, nutrition, biochemistry, etc. are all good possibilities. See our podcast on choosing a major: https://mypatraining.com/staging/staging/staging/physician-assistant-insider-episode-3-choosing-a-major
      It is possible to take all the courses you need in undergrad, but just don’t expect to get in right our of undergrad - they want you to work in a medical field for some time to gain experience.

  25. Hi Paul

    I am a Lpn for the last five years. I am gun hoe in becoming a PA. I happen to be 35 and a single parent . Should I pursue it since I read your comment in regards to 35 being too old. Is that a disadvantage . I know people who became doctors at 50.
    I truly want to pursue this route versus NP

    1. I never said 35 was too old! I was 41 when I graduated! If that’s what you want to do, then do it. 35 is fine. You’ll have an easier time getting a job out of school compared to the 20-somethings!

  26. Hi, at 31 I’ve decided to try to become a PA. I was active duty military and I have a masters in management, so it’s going to take me awhile to get the prerequisite science and math courses done. I am signed up for an EMT-B course in the fall. I’d like to be able to shadow/volunteer where ever and whenever possible and I’m currently a contractor and a volunteer at a combat ICU. I guess I have two questions… If this seems like a solid plan? And how will I be able to prove this ICU time? These people will have long been moved on and this hospital might not even exist anymore by the time I apply. Thanks for your time.

    1. I think your plan sounds fine. Don’t worry about “proving” your time. They expect that you are honest on your application, an although there are people who lie (and are caught), I know of no official “auditing” process. If they ask for details, be ready to give them what you have, but don’t expect it. You know you were there, so if it comes up, I’m sure you will find a way to substantiate your claim.

  28. Seher Mahmood says:

    Hello Paul,
    Do you know of any HCE you can acquire without taking a course and getting certification. For example, volunteering in a hospital or a nursing home. I have an activity staff position in a nursing home with mentally ill patients? Can that be put towards HCE? I also have a question about my undergrad college but I am not sure which category that falls under.
    Thank you!

    1. Yes, there are definitely types of healthcare experience you can get without a certificate. Medical assistant is one that comes to mind. Although there is a certificate to become a medical assistant, in most states a certificate is not required to do that kind of work. In my state, California, most MAs learn on the job.

      I’m not sure about your healthcare experience. It sounds good in the sense that you work with patients, but maybe not so good in the sense that you are involved with assessment and treatment of a medical problem. Do you talk with the patient’s providers at all about their physical abilities and any kind of a treatment plan? This might change things.If you have a question about your undergrad college, if you can’t find a question it falls under you can click contact us up at the top and send an email.

  29. Hello Paul,

    I am 24 years old and I am looking to apply to PA school next fall. I still have about 3 prerequisites to finish before then so I will be in school this fall through next summer. Currently my overall GPA is 3.88 and my Science GPA is a 4.0. However I am worrie about HCE. I was an EMT for a little while (about a year) volunteering 48 hrs a month however I had to stop due to school and work. I was going to start again this January however I am pregnant so I was unable to run duty. I also worked at a plasma center for 5 months as a floor tech/ phlebotomist. Currently I would say I have 1000 hours. I am looking to gain more experience because I feel as if I am not a strong applicant in terms of HCE. I have a full time job in a business setting that pays well so I cannot afford to quit. Is there anything I can do to gain HCE on a more flexible schedule?
    Thank you so much!

    1. You sound like you’ve done pretty well in preparing your application. PA school is not something I recommend you start by you have a newborn. Instead, it would be better for you I think, and much more realistic, for you to plan one more year before starting at least. That will be almost as hard, but doable.

      Don’t forget that readiness is a huge factor in PA school admissions. You can be the best applicants in the world but if your life is not in a place where you’re ready to make good use of what you learn, they are not going to feel great about admitting you.

      You seem to have done so well; if you can wait just a little bit longer you will be in an ideal position to push ahead as a PA.

  30. Hi Paul,

    I have a question on this. I have decided to go into the PA profession rather than MD for numerous reasons. During undergrad, I put in plenty of hours at UCD as a yellow shirt (over a span of 3 years). Here’s the problem though, I cannot think of a single clinician to ask for a LOR. From what I’ve seen, most schools require a LOR from a clinical to prove that you have put in the hours. I volunteered in so many departments that I never took the time to get to know a clinician. Any advice?

    1. For a letter, you really need someone who knows you (well). Go with a professor for one. You may need to do some shadowing for another. If you have had a job in health care, this would be another natural place to get a letter from a supervisor.

  31. I’m 32 and have zero volunteer hours under my belt but spent the last three years teaching autistic and behaviorally challenged students biology and other sciences. I have the majority of the prerequisite courses completed but at the end I’ll only have around a 3.2 cumulative and a 2.9 science undergraduate not including a 3.8 overall science education masters. The majority of my courses, with the exception of the masters, were taken well over seven years ago which may pose a problem for some schools. I plan on accumulating the rest of the required prerequisites and hours needed but feel like I’m not looking like a decent candidate at this point. I need at least a year to prepare for the program and I’m worried that it may be a waste of time if I don’t get into a school.

    1. It would be okay to apply at this point to “see what happens,” but it sounds like to solidify your chances at getting in, it will take you another two years or so. This will give you time to get some medical experience and to retake the science prerequisites that most schools will likely consider expired after 8 years. Don’t let that scare you - if this is what you want, what’s 2 more years to make it more likely to happen?

  32. Hi Paul,
    Are there ever any situations where veterinary experience would be considered for HCE? I have worked as a veterinary technician for 7 years and completed 2 years of veterinary school but had to withdraw. I am looking into apply to PA schools and I have seen one school mention that they do consider veterinary experience on a case by case basis, however this school’s accreditation is on probation right now so I’m not sure if applying to this school would be wise.

    1. This is tricky.

      Vet medicine IS HCE. The problem is what type. It is not considered the all-important “Patient Care Experience.” In most cases it is considered “Other health care experience,” (if you were working directly with the animals, or alternatively “Other work experience,” if you were administrative staff. Unfortunately, though I’m sure you have learned a lot about medicine, you will need to rustle up some Patient Care Experience. This means working in medical setting with human patients, providing some sort of assessment and/or treatment.

  33. I had been a medic in the army and completed EMT training while in. This carried over into civilian life and I worked for 7 years prior to PA school. My class was quite diverse in that we had RN’s, respiratory therapists, EMT’s, CNA’s ,… It will benefit you from finding something in the field while you complete your degree. It also helped a lot in regards to how to communicate with pt’s ie: bedside manner!

  34. Paul,

    Please let me know what you think. I have 8 years experience as a Navy Corpsman, however, that was 20 years ago. A year ago I changed my job recruiting allied healthcare students to working in a hospital as an Audiology Aide. As a part of the patient care team, I educate parents and screen the hearing of newborns. Also, at another hospital, I volunteer part-time in the emergency department. I am hoping to leverage my relationships to acquire PA and MD shadowing opportunities and references. In addition, recently, I have been getting job opportunities for A Dialysis Patient Care Technician and a Health Support Technician, however I am afraid accepting these jobs may cause me to lose out on the opportunities for shadowing and references, because of my busy schedule as a single parent and student. Please let me know if my strategy to get into PA school is an effective one.

  35. Hey Paul,

    I am 22 years old, I am working on my bachelor’s in Biomedical Sciences. I am working as an ophthalmic technician. I do interact with patients and perform diagnostic tests. I also take their medical history. So I am wondering if this would count as good HCE or if I should do something else? I was thinking of becoming a CNA but I saw it was only rated as “fair” HCE, so I was wondering what other one you would recommend if ophthalmic technician does not count.

    1. I think your work would count as HCE. I would suggest that you supplement it with some experience in another area of medicine, such as ER volunteer work or EMT just to give you some breadth of experience.

  36. Hi Paul

    I have been interested in attending PA school for a while now and am finally taking the steps needed to make my dream a reality. I have my BS from Brandeis University and I’ve been tackling my pre-requisites so accedemically I know that I’m where I need to be. My question is regarding the Health Care Experience hours. I worked as a research intern at an Oncology and Hematology center where I shaddowed the lead nurse in charge of Clinical Trials while she saw patients. Additonally I am currently working as a Patient Care Coordinator for a local hospital where I handle patient registration, field patient calls and coordinate their care, all of which puts me directly in contact with patients. I just want to make sure that these experiences both are considered HCE since I will be applying to the PA program in August.

    Hope to hear your feedback soon!
    Alyssa

    1. Hi, Alyssa!

      Sorry it took me so long to get to your question. First, if you were shadowing the nurse, this would fall under the CASPA category of “Health Care Shadowing.” These are good hours to have, but they are not considered direct patient care, because you aren’t the one providing the care. You Patient Care Coordinator job will give you some credit, but much of what you do is not with patients, so from the sound of it, it’s not the best kind of experience to have if you want to get into PA school. To count as health care experience, it typically has to have you 1) providing assessment or treatment for the patient, and 2) that working in person with the patient. For this reason, all of the time that you spend out making phone calls, reviewing charts, etc., really won’t count as patient contact, but as “Other Health Care Experience.” I suggest you look into EMT or CNA if you don’t have other opportunities that will fulfill #s 1 and 2 above.

    1. A preceptorship is an official arrangement between a provider, a student, and his or her PA school. I sounds like you are talking about shadowing. Shadowing is important to have, but after doing some time shadowing, you will need health care experience to get into PA school.

  38. I am a dental hygienist and was wondering how you think colleges would look at these patient hours for HCE? I know these patients are not generally sick, but I do deal with a fair share of patients who have complicated medical conditions and are undergoing medical treatments which can influence our dental treatments as well. I would love to know your thoughts!
    Thank you
    Trisha

    1. All schools will give you HCE credit for dental hygiene, but they might call it “Other Health Care Experience,” rather than the preferred “Patient Contact Hours.” You will need to contact the programs that interest you to ask them their policy on dental hygiene. I would also recommend that you broaden your HCE hours by doing some other kind of patient care work. You don’t want to be a one-trick pony!

  39. Hi Paul,

    I am getting ready to be a sophomore in college. My major is biology and I am interested in becoming a PA. I have been doing a lot of research on PA’s and what it takes to become one. I was wondering am i on the right path with a Biology major?? Can i start to acquire health care experience while in school as a undergrad student, If so how should i go about doing so ? I’m not sure if its to early or its just the right time to start. I would love to know your thoughts!
    Thank you
    Gabby

    1. Hi, Gabby! Biology is a fine major for a pre-PA. Wait on the HCE. There’s plenty of time for that when you have graduated. Right now, the biggest way you can help yourself get into PA school is by getting excellent grades, and the biggest way to shoot yourself in the foot would be to divide your time and then get mediocre grades. If you absolutely can’t wait, do a few hours a week in your college’s student health center as a volunteer. But my preference would be to wait. The average age of new PA students is 27 for a reason: it takes time and experience after college to prepare a person for what they will learn there.

  40. Hi Paul,
    I am interested in applying to PA school. I graduated six years ago and I have a degree in Biology. I currently work for the FDA and do inspections at blood banks and blood donor centers. During my inspections I speak with patients and ask them specific questions about the care that they are receiving from the nurses and phlebotomists. I also observe the patients as they are donating blood and being screened as a blood donor. Can this be included as direct patient care hours when I apply to PA school?

  41. Hi Paul, I’m 19 and a sophomore in undergrad. I’ve been a CNA at a local hospital for a year and a half now, and I am just taking on another job at my city’s major hospital as a patient care assistant. By the time I apply to PA schools in the spring of my junior year I probably will have around 3,500 hours. Does this give me a leg up at all? I am not getting my hopes up of beginning graduate school right after I graduate from my current school, but I don’t want to be a CNA for 3-5 years until I get in. Is there another job I can look for if I don’t get in right away?

    1. You are doing fine with respect to HCE. But what are your grades like? If they are good, then you are doing about all that you can do. If not, then I think you’re focusing on the wrong area.

  42. I’m 26 and currently a CNA and about to finish up my phlebotomy certification. I would really love to be a PA, but were do I start? What undergraduate course do I need to get started?

  43. Cristina Waterman says:

    Hello Paul,
    I am a junior in college currently transferring to a UC school. It took me a while to finally find a career and major I am greatly looking forward to. The only thing is that I feel as though craving to become a PA and my passion of the Classics in Humanities or European Studies discipline, my intended major choices, we’re said to not support going into the health care profession. Do I need a science major in order to go to or increase my chances for PA school? Is it possible to fulfill the prerequisite course requirements through a biology minor and major in what I am passionate about? Most everyone shakes their heads at my major and say it will be an automatic rejection and that PA schools want only science or health majors. How can I stand out as someone they would want to accept? I am conflicted and would appreciate your advice. Thank you!

    1. Tough question. The classics are a joy to study, and that should be a big part of why you go to college. Being a scholar.
      The word scholaractually comes from Latin schola, which means schoolchild. In the words of Alan Watts, it used mean that being a scholar was to “study all the charming irrelevancies of life,” or to learn for the fun of learning, and nothing else. Today, college is much more less about scholarship, and more about life preparation.

      So you need to decide: are you going to school to study what makes your heart sing and is unlike to pay the bills someday, or to study what you hope will one day pay the bills? If you haven’t found a career that does both, then you have a difficult dilemma ahead of you.

      PA schools don’t reject applicants based on their majors. Period. But it’s harder to argue that medicine is your calling when what you put your money and 4 years into was studying something so far from medicine.

      My take on this if you can’t get paid to do what is your passion, then do what is practicalfirst, and then branch out into what is your passion. For my money, if you can’t do both (make money at your passion), you would do well to eat your peas first, and thengo on vacation. Better to have a career to fall back on so you can finance your passion first. Because coming back from vacation to a plate of cold peas is the worst!

  44. Thanks for offering so much information about PA school. I am a senior at UW-Milwaukee (3.93 GPA) and I am looking to apply to PA school in two years. I currently work full-time as a police officer, hold a WI EMT-Paramedic License (I was an EMT-B 2004-2007, an ER Tech 2005-2009 and I worked full time as an EMT-Paramedic 2007-2009, I still keep my license up to date, as well as CPR,ACLS,PALS,NRP) What is your opinion about HCE “Expiring”? I am a bit concerned about this, as I will be out of regular practice for roughly 7 years when I apply. Currently, I teach basic first aid, CPR, and TEMS (Tactical Emergency Medical Support) to new police recruits, but that is about it for any health care exposure other than occasional stabbings/shootings/car accidents (Milwaukee has a great FD, so I rarely wait more than 30s before they arrive). Altogether, I have roughly 8000 hours of direct patient contact, and I was hoping that would give me an edge in the selection process. Thanks for taking time to read this.

    Corey

    1. I don’t think you need to worry too much about it. You will be able to demonstrate a wealth of health care experience in several different settings. As long as you can show them that you are doing this as more than an afterthought, I think you’ll be fine. Look at your experience in sum total, not piecemeal. There’s no denying you’ve seen and done a lot. Just show them in your essay why you are doing this and why it’s the natural next step for you and you’ll be fine.

      1. Thanks, Paul. I had a few ‘Advisors’ tell me that my experience was going to be too ‘old’ and that I had better consider other options.

        Corey

      2. Hi Paul,

        I thought I would get back to you about my HCE issue. I ended up meeting with an admissions advisor about this (and a few other lingering issues) over the summer. As far as the school was concerned, it was a non-issue. I am really surprised by the difference in opinion, but I will take it!. I have my first interview in four days, thanks for your help!

  45. Hello,
    Thanks for posting this! I am also glad to see that other people are struggling with HCE as well. As for me, I am finishing my associates and will be transferring on to a University in the fall in order to get my bachelors. I know I might have to take a year off in order to finish all of my HCE hours, but I do not want to take more than that. Are there any good suggestions on what the best HCE jobs are, that offer on-the-job training? I was thinking of looking into physical therapy aide! Let me know, and thank you so much!

  46. hi,
    I am a sophmore in high school and intrested in being a PA. I am currently volunteering at a local hospital as desk clerk of some sort. I answer calls from doctors and help retrieve any info needed. Also help patients look for there destination. So, would this be good for experience for when I apply in the future? Also, my senior year i am planning to take a class that wil get me my CNA, but I read above that its not all that great so should I just do medical terminology which offers college credit. Then, take a classes in college to be something to have the Healthcare experience, like plebotomy? What job should I have experience in before applying to a PA school? Also, should I even pursue this career with bad skills in math and chemistry? I also have ADHD, so should i even try?

    1. Wow, lots of questions. I could write a book on each.

      First, at your age, that’s almost as close as anyone is going to let you get with real patients. That and shadowing are all you really should think about at this point. Your idea of medical terminology and a health related major are probably the best. DON’T WORK ON YOUR HCE UNTIL YOU GRADUATE, except super light, keep-your-foot-in-the-clinic-door stuff. You absolutely can’t afford to let your time working in health care affect your grades. Too many students try early on to get lots of hours with patients, and then get crummy grades alongside all those great hours, and often it kills their chances. So for now, you’re good. STUDY HARD.

  47. Dear Paul,
    I have really enjoyed reading all of your post. I am currently working on my undergrad in psychology and I have a few questions. I would like to know if that is a good undergrad to take to get into medical school? Also I still have about four more years left of school to go before I graduate. I have not started core classes for my undergrad yet and I wonder if I would even get accepted with a psychology undergrad? Also I am going to get my EMT certificate and apply to work on the weekends since I work full time right now. I am 28 years old and I am just unsure if I am even on the right path. Here is what I know: get my undergrad, shadow PA, get 1,000 HCE (paid) hours, then apply to PA school. I am more confused about what my undergrad would be. I would like to work in Psychiatric PA field. I have heard this is not a big area PAs are used at.
    Thank you so much!
    Julie

    1. There are plenty of psychiatric PAs! They make very good money, too.

      I’m not sure what you’re asking here though. Majors: psychology is better than business, not as good as biology/chemistry. Are you trying to become an MD, or a PA? Because you said medical school, which is usually the MD path. I think that if your grades are good (particularly your science prereqs which you would probably do after your BS/BA), then you’re good. But if you major in psych and do not so well, it’s really not good.

  48. Hi Paul,
    I am currently a sophomore in college, and I want to be a physician’s assistant. I know that you said that CNA is not the best healthcare experience, but I am not sure how to get certified/get a job/accumulate hours while being in school. The EMT program near me is 3 months but the job requires you to work overnight which is difficult especially during the semester when I have classes the following morning/day. Also, I was looking into medical assistant, but that’s a 9-12 month program that I would not be able to do while I am in college. The CNA program is only 1 month and I already work in a hospital in a clerical setting, so I am hoping they will transfer me into one of the units (as opposed to working at a nursing home). I am very conflicted and confused as to how to get these hours while still being in school. Please let me know what you think, thanks!

    1. You’re conflicted for good reason. I don’t think you should be trying to get your hours while in school. It’s pretty foolish, IMHO. There is no factor more important than your grades when it comes to PA school admissions. PERIOD. You can get in with no health care experience with good grades, but you can’t get in with crappy grades and lots of health care experience. Think toroise and hare here. The tortoise ALWAYS wins. Be the tortoise. One thing at a time. First a BS/BA with good grades, THEN health care experience. You’ll have plenty of time for an EMT job when school’s over.

  49. Rabiha Sabir says:

    Hi, I am a pre-PA student and and I will be starting college in fall 2015. I have decided to take BS in Biology as my major and have decided to enroll into an EKG and Phelbotomy combined course to have a pre-pa medical career. Are there choices good for PA school. Also, I know a physician assistant who works in my primary care’s office. Is it ok if I shadow her and also for how many hours should I at least shadow? And if she rejects it, is there any other way I can find a PA to shadow?

  50. Hi Paul,
    I’ve been reading your posts and they have been really helpful. Here is my situation. I graduated with a liberal arts degree and then decided to return to school a few years later to pursue a career in health sciences. I took all the classes (except for 3) at a community college and have a 3.98 GPA. I’ve worked in a clinical lab for several years and have a few publications as well. I volunteered as a audiology assistant for over 2 years and have accumulated over 500 hours. I guess my question is how do you rate my chances in getting into PA school? I am currently looking for a job as a scribe to gain more HCE. I’ve also worked with underserved populations before returning to school.
    Thank you for your advice!

    1. Not bad. Your GPA is the best thing you have going for you, and congrats, because no one can take that away. Now that it’s etched in stone, you can pour all your attention into getting more experience. You might be able to get in as you are, but you will probably need some acute care experience. EMT or one of the tech professions would serve the purpose well. Some schools don’t require many or even ANY HCE. But more is better, so apply, and while you do so, continue accumulating hours in case you don’t get in. By the time you find out, it will be nearly time to turn in another application!

  51. Thank you Paul for all the articles and informations you have posted so far.My question for you is different from those above since Iam not a native english speaker, first thing to ask is about the GRE and TOEFL , should I consider to take both of them or only TOEFL is enough. I graduated 6 years ago from an uncredited univesity from overseas, I have my BS in biology and Iam 30,very very motivated to get into PA school since it was always my dream to be a doctor but for economic reason I coudn’t. Be a PA is the best an alternative. I worked 1 year overseas as a phlebotomist and as lab tech. is this considered as HCE? do they consider overseas experience as valable?or not really.

    1. The TOEFL and the GRE test totally different things. Many schools do not require the GRE, so don’t worry about that unless the particular schools you want to apply to do. As a non-native English speaker you will almost certainly need to take the TOEFL to prove that you have good enough English skills to get you through PA school and to practice as a PA. PLAN on taking the TOEFL for sure. Overseas experience is just as valuable as US experience, to my knowledge; it’s not about WHERE you work with patients, but HOW MUCH you do, and WHAT you do with them. It does sound like you will need more hours here in the states, however.

  52. Hi Paul,

    This site is very helpful! I’m a senior in college with one more semester left. I have a 3.84 GPA, 25 hours of job shadowing, and about 150 service hours. Since I have been playing college volleyball the last three years, I only have about 700 hours of HCE, but I intend to get a job this next semester. I’m hoping to apply this summer and I should have approximately 1,000 hours by then. However, I will keep working until I actually go to P.A. school which won’t be until 2017. So, I am wondering if these hours that I will gain after I send in my application, but before I go to P.A. school, will count in anyway? If not, would you suggest waiting to apply?

    1. No, they won’t. If you interview, you can tell them that you intend to continue working and estimate how many hours you will have by the time you would start PA school. I wouldn’t wait. What if you got in the first time? Problem solved. It also gets you familiar with the application process the next time around if you don’t get in the first time.

  53. Veterinarian says:

    Hi Paul,

    Thank you for your informative website. I am a veterinarian considering a career change, and PA seems to fit my experience, strengths, and needs best. I graduated from veterinary school almost 20 years ago, with my B.A. (including the vast majority of prerequisites) four years before that. I actually love my profession, but the US is experiencing a significant oversupply of veterinarians, which is becoming worse. I am considering the change not because I am dissatisfied, but to provide a secure future for my family.

    That being said, do you have any thoughts regarding HCE credit for practicing as a veterinarian? Obviously, a pet is not a person (although there are certainly similarities in medicine), but I could make a case for frequent counseling in zoonotic diseases, management of grief in owners who must make the decision to euthanize or for whom emergency interventions are not effective, etc. Although small animal veterinarians treat pets, there are actually more person to person interactions than vet to animal. My assumption is that I won’t have an opportunity to “make the case” , so to say, on an application form.

    Thank you for your insight.

    1. I understand your dilemma. I think you will certainly get some credit for your work. It won’t be as much as you want (or probably deserve). I actually think that with all the clinical and counseling work you do, you would probably make an amazing PA. That said, you can’t call veterinary medicine experience “patient care experience,” per the CASPA guidelines (needs to be with a human). You might enter it into your application as “healthcare experience,” which isn’t AS good, but is still good. I don’t know how much you know about admissions or what stage you are at in considering this field. Not all, but most schools use CASPA (Central Application Service for Physician Assistants), and their website is fairly strict about what can be considered health care experience (click to read about the different types of experience you can enter into your application). In your case, you might think about applying to NON-CASPA schools (click). These schools are generally smaller and have more idiosyncratic criteria for admission. This might allow you to “make the case” better. Let me know how it goes.

  54. Hi Paul,
    I am about to enter my last year of undergrad and plan on going to PA school. Last year I spent 6 months studying abroad in Australia and have been considering moving there to do my patient hours, I would work as a paramedic (equivalent of an EMT in the States). Do you think PA schools would accept this?

    I would of course contact a few of them to be sure, but just wanted to ask it as a general question before I look into it further.

    Thanks,
    Zach

    1. I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t. Time with patient is time with patients. Just be sure that any certifications or degrees you earn are earned in the US so you don’t have problems.

  55. Hi Paul,
    I am looking for some advice in order to be competitive for PA schools! I currently work as a Resource (or float pool) Nursing Technician (basically a CNA in a hospital setting), so I see and experience tons of interesting things anywhere from med-surg, to ICU, to peds, to rehab. As you state in the article, CNAs aren’t really making decisions for patient care, but I would argue that in my current position I do make more decisions than a typical CNA in a nursing home. Anyway, I am a senior in college, and plan on applying to a couple local schools this coming application period because my husband is finishing up nursing school. But if I don’t get in, I have a least 1-2 gap years before I can apply out of state. Would getting an EMT-b be beneficial to bump up my application? My patient contact hours (at about 2500) is my strong suit,(and needs to be stronger by looking at school requirements) not so much my GPA (3.6).
    Should I stay in my current position or try for a EMT-b? I know EMT - paramedic would be ideal for PA school, but at the moment I don’t have the time or finances.
    Thanks!

    1. You could do that. I’m not sure I would make such a big jump. Are there other units in the hospital where you could work with patients in some other capacity? As a CNA you would be well qualified to train on the job as a medical assistant in a doctor’s office. CNA isn’t BAD. But some schools don’t value it highly. Do some investigating. Try to find something different from what you’ve done before. EMT is great, but you get the credit for it not from your cert, but from your time working with patients as an EMT. This means you would need either an ambulance job or an ER tech job to make EMT worth doing. Those are out there though. And having some acute care experience would be good for the breadth of your HCE.

  56. Hi Paul,

    Thanks for your valuable explanations and guidance here. I have worked as a physician in my country almost 15 years. I came to US for residency .I passed all required USMLE exams and got ECFMG certificate. But I did not get any interview, so I decided to be PA, I am going to apply PA schools. My practice hours in patient care are countable for PA?

    1. Yes they are. You should know that the biggest obstacle you are likely to face is proving your motivation for becoming a PA. Many foreign medical graduates struggle to gain admission for this reason. Make sure you can give them a believable explanation for why you are pursuing a career as a PA.

  57. Hi Paul,

    I just recently started looking into PA School, or actually I am interested in pursuing the PA/MPH joint program. I am planning on applying to MPH programs, but I was recently advised by an MD to look into other clinical professions such as a PA, MD or RN. I recently got my bachelors in community health and I have been working as medical receptionist over 6 years now and I have had a lot of interaction with patients. The three specialities where I have worked as medical receptionist are urology, ENT, and neurology. In all three specialities, I have been in the room with both the doctors and nurse practitioners interpreting in Spanish. I have also had to give tests results, go over medications list, discuss doctors orders etc. Even for some Spanish speaking patients I’ve had to review their medical history on the new patient registration forms. Would this count as HCE?

    Thank you!

    1. Yes, pretty much any face-to-face time with patients counts. Not all HCE is of equal value, remember. This sounds good in terms of being varied experience (several specialties is great to show). Bilingual skills is good to. Where your experience may be less than ideal is that you weren’t the one assessing/treating the patients. By contrast, EMT or medical assistant work would give you that. So consider branching out to add some HCE that will show that you can be the one evaluating/treating the patients).

  58. What is the best type of health experience to have? I am a junior who will be graduating with a nutritional sciences degree. I am shadowing a PA at a local urgent care center. I have been trying to find jobs at a local hospital as a patient monitor or nursing assistant. I have heard that paid experience in a hospital setting is best. Is this true or is it just a myth?

    1. I think it would depend on what you were doing. CNA in a hospital is probably better than CNA in a nursing home. But CNA in a hospital probably isn’t as good as EMT in an ambulance. Look for jobs that will having directly responsible for a patient’s care, so you can consider it the good kind of experience, “Patient Care Experience,” instead of the relatively weaker “Healthcare Experience.” Read CASPA’s FAQ on that issue by clicking here.

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