PA School Application Tip #2: Protect Your GPA
Posted By: Kubin | Become a PA
If you’re applying to PA school, protect your GPA.
We frequently receive emails from PA school applicants who are wondering what to do about low grades when they apply. It’s understandable – sh*t sometimes happens. Maybe you had a bad breakup or a medical crisis while you were taking chemistry or anatomy or some other important course. Or maybe you took too much on, and your grades suffered.
Whatever the case, protecting your GPA is a little different from the advice to “Get A’s.” Your GPA is hugely important, and protecting it is about preventing catastrophe. I draw this distinction because even if you’re grade point average isn’t stellar (say low B’s), you may still be able to get into PA school if you play your hand properly. But things get much harder with multiple C’s or any D, F, or Withdraw-Failing grade. This kind of performance is a stroboscopic signal to physician assistant school admissions committees that you don’t have the what it takes to make it in their program.
How to Protect Your Grade Point Average
- Avoid taking more than two demanding courses at a time. For most students, this is about the sciences, but it could be about any subject that presents a challenge for you. With sciences, it’s usually about courses that require a lab section, such as General or Organic Chemistry, Physiology, Anatomy, Microbiology and Physics. Even if you’re in a hurry to get your prerequisites completed so you can apply to PA school, avoid the temptation to rush. The risk is just too great. If you earn a bad grade, you may blow your shot at PA school now and in the future. By spreading things out, it may take longer, but you’ll have a better chance of acceptance because you’ll have better grades. If you struggle with a particular subject, adjust this rule to not taking more than one such class at a time.
- Take prerequisite courses from the best instructors you can. Have you heard negative reviews of a particular instructor or even all the instructors in a particular department? Pick another, even if it means you need to take that course at a different school. You should only take these important courses from instructors with great reputations because bad or unfriendly instructors can truly affect your learning, and therefore your grade.
- Use all of the resources that are available to you. Most colleges have a learning or resource center where you can get extra help, such as tutoring, when you need it. These are almost always free to enrolled students. Go to every review or tutoring session you can. Don’t be embarrassed or deny there is a problem – just get the help.
- Mix “soft” sciences with “hard” ones. Instead of taking your toughest prerequisites simultaneously, spread them out by mixing them with other “soft” science courses like nutrition, evolutionary biology, medical terminology, or a general health class.
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School needs to be your top priority – everything else comes second. If you struggle with English, have someone read your work before submitting. Find a native speaker who is confident with the language and ask them to scan your papers for errors and unclear language. This is good practice even if you feel strong in English; the more you work on a paper, the more difficult it becomes to see the errors in it. If you’re an international student, make sure to study for the TOEFL.
- If you have a learning disability, use your school’s disability resource center (DRC). By law, services for those with disabilities must be provided to students who genuinely need them. They can’t change your grades, but they can often test you and allow you “accommodations” to level the playing field. Accommodations can include more time on exams, audio exams, someone to take notes for you, etc.
- Take courses in their intended order. This is important because many science courses build on material learned in their prerequisite courses. For instance, don’t try to take physiology or biochemistry until you have taken and feel comfortable with general chemistry. If you do, you’ll be more more likely to get lost, behind, frustrated, etc. Not sure the proper order to take them? No problem: make an appointment with your academic adviser or a faculty member in the related department (e.g. Department of Biology). That’s what they’re there for.
- Avoid full-time work during full-time school. Ambitious and impatient students often try this. They need money, so they work full-time, then go to class at night. This is a recipe for exhaustion and mediocre grades. If you need money, consider a student loan, cutting costs, moving in with family, getting a roommate (or three), etc. School must be your first priority.
- Take a study skills class, particularly if you are bad at standardized (multiple choice) tests, or tend to be a procrastinator. Doing well on multiple choice tests is an ability that can be learned. Poor study skills will prevent you from becoming a PA – period. Classes are usually offered for free at college learning/resource centers.
- Get help early. If you’re struggling with a concept, or an entire course, take action immediately. See your instructor for a little extra assistance during office hours. If you get in over your head, it’s not a big deal – take something off your plate fast, before your performance suffers. If possible, drop before the “Last day to withdraw without a grade,” so that no one will even know you took the course. If you can’t do it that early, do it before your grade dips too low. A “Withdrawn Failing” (WDF) is much worse than a straight “Withdrawn” (WD).
Remember: Protect Your GPA
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I had to bite the bullet and do this recently. My general chem 2 grade was slipping with little hopes of going up so I dropped the class with a W, my biology teacher gave a great example, I had been working 2 jobs while taking Molecular Bio and Gen Chem 2 and fell behind, he said to hit the ‘reset’ button and to drop the class and redo it next semester.
I’m glad I did, I emailed a bunch of schools a couple days before the drop deadline and they all said the same thing; a ‘W’ is much better than a D or F.
Great advice. I always tried to mix the more difficlut classes with the “easier” ones until the counselor at my schools PA program told me not to . She said that they would not be impressed and that i should take a heavier course load,! Now I am ALL confused :/
Lydia – I don’t agree with your counselor’s advice. I mean, if you can take organic chemistry, anatomy, and microbiology at the same time and do well, I guess it doesn’t matter. But you can’t take a bad grade back – once you earn it, it’s out there forever.
I’ll also add that even in PA school, they don’t dump your hardest courses on you all at once. There is usually one or sometimes two really tough ones per term.
Set yourself up to succeed!
Ah – the story of my life! I was the 16 yr old kid in college who took her freshman year as a joke and flunked everything only to set myself up to a horrible GPA for the remainder years to come and still managed to not do so well.. I blame it on immaturity. Here I am now, years later, serious about life and this is what I want to do. My GPA suffered greatly.. cumulative a 2.7 although my individual major GPA’s were near 3.5.
Am I kidding myself by trying to get into a PA school? *sighs*
My lowest grades were in college. Then when I returned for more schooling to prepare for PA school, and my grades were better. I handled the problem by showing how much better my grades have been in recent years, which meant more to them (apparently).
Yep, I am in the same boat – my undergraduate GPA was 2.985, major 3.2 but in a totally different field (IT). Now 14 years later, now that I want to be a PA it’s coming back to bite me for some schools that I’ve talked to. I’ve been told that some folks going back to get a second degree first, then applying to PA school. From what I understand it’s really super competitive out there now for PA school versus just even a few years ago :-/ It is a little disheartening but if you want to do it bad enough you will make it happen. My problem is I keep thinking about the income loss, not just the debt I’ll be incurring….
Absolutely agree. A healthy mix of “hard” and “soft” sciences usually works well.
I, too, had humble beginnings as a pre-PA student. My grades weren’t stellar, but I did what I had to do to increase my GPA as much as possible.
I’ve been a fan of this site for a while now. You all do great work. Keep it up.
I am signed up for Anatomy and Physiology I, Organic Chemistry I, along with Abnormal Psychology(I am minoring in Psychology) and Conflicts in Ethics( I am assuming this will be an easy Philosophy class). I am a bit concerned about taking A&P I and O-Chem I together. Many people have said they are both extremely difficult subjects to master. I am very good with my study habits and I will not be working this semester. Any advice, words of encouragement?
Organic is more about memorization and most people realize. You’ll learn different types of chemical reactions that have definite, predictable steps. MEMORIZE these. Get a good stick and ball set to make models of molecules out of – much of organic is about visualizing 2d things in 3d, and the models will help, particularly when you get to stereochemistry. A&P are similar. For anatomy, I recommend recording yourself describing structures, pausing, and them giving their name. Then in the car or whenever you have free time, you can review by listening, and then trying to name them before you hear the name on the recording. Physio is very detail oriented. Start by reading the summaries at the end of each chapter, then read the chapter, then read the summary again and make sure that everything makes sense. You’re going to do just fine!
Paul,
Thanks so much for the invaluable advice. I have copied it and have it in my A&P binder! Please keep on doing what you do on this website and again, I thank you immeasurably!
Hi Paul,
I just found your site and I want to thank you so much for all of the helpful information! Regarding this topic, I was hoping you could answer one of my questions. To quickly introduce myself, I’ve recently finished my bachelor’s at UCB and decided that Physician’s Assistant is the job of my dreams! However, due to my immaturity and inability to “protect my grade,” my cumulative and major GPA’s suffered greatly (2.7 and 3.1 respectively).
Do you have any advice on how to “fix” my GPA? Just wondering if it’s possible to re-take courses at a community college, or if I should just gather Medical Assistant experience, forego re-taking classes, and apply to PA school?
Thank you for your time!
I don’t think it will hurt you applying, but your odds are long. If I were in your shoes, I would look at working in the medical field for a while to develop some experience while stepping back to regroup. You can reapply as you do.
When you’re ready, you can take some new courses and/or retakes, but you should only do so when you are in a totally motivated, rested, eager, and committed state. Wait until the fire to be back in school burns and you know you will succeed.
For most schools, retaking proves that you can conquer the subject that you struggled with originally, but the new grades won’t replace old grades. Instead, these grades are added to your old coursework, and your cumulative gpa is recalculated. This means that it takes time and excellent grades to make a considerable dent in a weak gpa. You basically want to show that you’ve turned over a new leaf, and you’re a different student than you once were.
Thanks for the prompt response! Not going to lie, it’s slightly discouraging to think that this low GPA might ruin my future, but I’ve decided that this is something I truly wish to do. I’ll need all the hope I can get, so please continue to inspire and motivate.
Much appreciation,
Chris
Hey! Thanks so much for all this great info. I have a question Paul. I am currently enrolled in a Physics course that I have come to realize I do not need for the PA programs I’m applying. I really want to drop because it is taking time away from my other science courses and I don’t need it but I’m pass the drop deadline. Do you think I should take a “W” or should I stick the course out? I will probably end up with a “B,” not the biggest deal but I just don’t want it on my transcript!
thanks for your advice!
Thanks, Rachel !You could go either way on this, but I think I would drop it, if you will get a W (passing). Physics is helpful to have — particularly the mechanics, and less so the electromagnetics part, but if it could drop your gpa, I would skip it, unless you already have several W’s.
I am wondering if PA schools take into account the grade deflation of your undergraduate school.
I go to UC Berkeley and am a third year with a 3.308 (I am trying hard to get it higher) and the premed classes have a lot of grade deflation.
Any advice would be much appreciated! I am so excited to find this profession!!!
Thank you
Hi, Eve! 1) Don’t kill yourself with classes that aren’t required for PA school – you won’t impress anyone, and you risk bringing your GPA down, not up. 2) Summer school courses at UC Berkeley are lower pressure, and somewhat easier on the whole – consider them 3) Read our post: PA School Application Tip: Protect Your GPA
Paul,
I just found this awesome thread! I have really been looking deep into what I would like to do and have been thinking all over the place in various health professions. Currently I have a 3.35GPA that should be on the up this coming semester. I am currently a third year and still have some harder sciences to take such as organic and microbio. I was wondering what you thought about finishing my major at my current university and finishing my hard sciences at a community college. However, I don’t know if it’s worth taking these sciences somewhere else with a lower reputation than my current university. Any thoughts?
Hi, Andy! This question comes up from time to time, and the thinking (here, anyway), is that it doesn’t make much difference. Do whatever will get you the best grades. GPA up is the important part.
Wow quick response! I was thinking along the same lines, but I was wondering how the interview would go when they would see my transcript with my harder sciences coming from a school other than the one I graduated from. I’m really set on this career with what I know and can’t wait for my shadowing this summer. What I’m trying to get at is that I just don’t really know what I would say in my defense of taking courses like organic and microbio elsewhere besides the fact that it costs less.
Paul,
Thank you so much for your input! I’m planning on putting my nose to the grindstone with these last handful of classes. Do upper level science classes from a cc prove anything?
That’s easy. Just tell them that for financial reasons you needed to finish up your degree, but you knew needed a few more prereqs. I bet it’s the truth, too!
I have heard a bunch of classmates debating this issue. I went to an Open House at Duke for their PA Program and they specifically stated that they frown on courses taken at a community college; they want to see your upper level science courses taken at a 4 year institution because they want to know that when you get to PA school you can handle the level of rigor and intensity of the courses of the program. O Chem is kicking my ass this semester so I recently dropped it and many of my classmates advised to retake it at the community college, but I think I will just brave it at my 4 year institution. I am guessing that it depends from PA program to PA program.
Yes, it varies from program to program. BUT:
Between getting lower grades in at a well-reputed university and getting better grades at a community college, the latter is always preferable. Period.
I have to say I am feeling quite overwhelmed by all this GPA stuff and how competitive all these programs are! Paul, could you give us some sense of the different GPA/work HCE backgrounds you’ve encountered from your classmates at Davis?
I guess to make us all feel a little better, I was told from a doc who graduated from Columbia med school that they did admit people with pre-reqs taken at community college, although these folks were a little older and did so because they had been out of school a few years. If top-notch med schools are doing this, PA schools are probably following suit as well.
Please help me with advice ! I am currently an undergrad majoring in Bio. I have a current GPA of 3.2. I have just taken 2 bio courses and received a B+ in the first one and an A in the second one. Currently I am taking 3 science courses with labs. In the summer I will also take another bio course. In my fall semester I will take Chem 2, A&P 1, Ecology, OrgO lab 1 and a sociology course. Spring of 2013 I will take OrgO 1 & 2 lecture, OrgO 2 lab, A&P 2, physics 2, and senior seminar. Summer 1 of 2013 I will take my last bio ( Genetic). I am so confused as to when I should start applying to the PA program???? I currently have 60 credits am taking 18 now. I also haven’t taken the GRE. In addition, I have a 4 year experience in a pediatrics office as a Medical Assistant/ Office Manager. However, I do want to shadow a PA. Please advise me on when I should start applying to the PA program? Also what can I do t be a great candidate??
Hi, Karen!
The tone of your comment made me think you’re a little panicked.
STOP.
There is time, and you sound like you are working hard at school. Completing school, with the best grades possible should be your only focus right now. Too often people try to do it all at once, and that just isn’t going to work. Your GPA needs some work, and doing well in the classes before you is the only way to get it. So step back, take a deep breath, and work on what’s in front of you.
Once you graduate, you can apply (for the following fall, of course), and while you’re waiting to get in you can work on the other things. Varied clinical experiences (those with patients) are a plus, but they won’t amount to a hill of beans if your GPA is mediocre. Do you have an academic advisor? Maybe they can offer more specifics as to strategies for your particular situation.
I have a quick question: i got my AS degree in 2009 in cardiac ultrasound and been working for 3 years now. When i was at the community college, my GPA was not good at all. I’ve recently enrolled in college again to pursue my PA career and taking classes at two different colleges. One is at university to get my bachelor degree in Health science and one is at community college for my sciences classes (at the private university, they dont offer all of the sciences courses such as Bio 1 & 2, chem 1&2 and organic chem). My GPA at the university is 3.8, while i had to file a waiver to withdraw my 2 science classes at community college due to work related issue (it happened when the withdraw date already passed). Do you think it will make a big impact on my acceptance to PA school in the future? im really stresssing out right now cause i know that these sciences classes are very important. Please advise!!! Thank you so much…
oh, sorry didnt explain myself clearly. My application for the waiver got denied, that mean i will get WF for the two science classes :( Though i can retake them in the future.
They are unlikely to affect your GPA, since there’s no grade to calculate it with. But schools may look askance at you because you withdrew failing. To counteract this, you need to offer a convincing explanation in your essay as to why this happened, and be prepared to address it in your interview as well.
If you have a convincing reason and they buy it, you may not have a huge problem, particularly if your GPA is otherwise strong, which it sounds to be.
Once again, the essay will be crucial for you.
Unfortunately I had to withdraw from a course after the drop deadline and I ended up with an F on my transcript for Chem 2. The drop was due to personal circumstances that I didn’t have control over, when I explained this to the registrar I basically received a “too bad” response. The F is still there and I’m about to send in my application. What is your advice on how to handle this situation – is it appropriate to “defend” the F in an essay? For one application, there’s a “anything else you’d like to tell us about yourself” section. Would it be better to explain the F or just ignore it? I will add, for this particular program, Chem 2 is not a required pre-requisite. Thanks for your help!
You can’t ignore it, because they won’t ignore it. IMHO, that’s one of the best uses of the physician assistant essay: to provide context to your application that they need to get an accurate picture of who you are. I assume you have retaken the course? If so, the new grade will be factored into your GPA along with the F (it doesn’t replace it), but it allows you to show that you have the knowledge, and can do better than an F.
I think you have to explain. I wouldn’t spend too long on it, unless the story is crucial to some aspect of who you are beyond the F. So explain, convince them that it will never happen again, you’ve learned from your “screwup,” etc., and move on.
This site is an answered prayer!! I have just graduated from Fresno State, where I was a physical therapy student for 3 1/2 years, and I decided late that I wanted to jump into the PA field (great advice from my friend). I have since: taken an EMT class and plan to get experience here at Fresno’s Trauma I RMC, finish my last two class that were not included in my degree (Kinesiology-Exercise Science Option) which is Micro and an Anthro. class, and partake in the application process for PA school. I do have over the 3.0 that the UC Davis’ website says is required, but it is not much over that (roughly 3.15 depending on this semesters A’s and B’s). Basically my question’s are: 1. Being that Fresno State is not known for a medical oriented background what influence will that have over me, and 2. how much does this experience as an EMT in a highly respected hospital setting offset the average grades that I got. I am merely trying to get my outlook on what will happen to me in the next year and hopefully you guys can shed some light. Once again great work and it was a ton of help
Hi, Brent!
I think the school you are from matter less than the GPA that you received from that school. Working as an EMT is great, but it is unlikely to “offset” your GPA; they are two different things. But with the right essay, you can get in despite your grades. Admissions committees want their interest piqued. UCD in particular likes well rounded people, so your essay is the place to show them that that’s you. Good luck.
Great info. That is actually why UCD appealed to me for the fact they appreciate the well-rounded individual, being that I am from a very rural area and plan on staying rural as a post education adult. Given the new info that you have given me, would you recommend doing the EMT work until the Dec 1st deadline then applying, or doing EMT work for a little longer then see? Just trying to stay ahead of the game. Thanks again.
This site has helped me so much! Hoping you can help me answer some questions. I decided that I wanted to apply for PA school this year. I am going to be a senior at Rutgers University, majoring in Cell Biology/Neuroscience and Psychology. My first 3 academic years were rough due to depression and anxiety/attention disorders that I just got diagnosed with this year. I am on medication now and doing much better, but my GPA seems unsalvageable. As of right now, it is a 2. 5, and I have one more year left. The only thing is, I got an F in Orgo, retook it and I got a C.. At my school, the C replaces the F, but as I was looking at the CASPA, it said that they factor all grades in and that the F would be part of my GPA. Is this true and is there anyway around this? The 2.5 I can manage to bring up to a 3.0 by taking some post-bac classes(I’ll also be working as a CNA) after I graduate. But, the F being factored in makes it not possible to get above a 3.0. For most schools, it says that that is a requirement. What should I do?
Can you tell me what is considered by most PA schools as a competitive GPA? For my Bachelors I have a 4.0 and it was in business. I’ve gone back to get my science classes and have got straight A’s and two B’s…..the B’s were in intro to chem and intro to bio…..but my A’s were in all the harder science classes required for PA schools. I also volunteer in an ER and do a lot of shadowing with docs and PA’s that let me do a lot of hands on experience, stuff that they usually let their actual PA and Med students do. I’m just really nervous about those 2 B’s because of how competitive I hear the program is; and being a PA is not only my dream it’s becoming part of who I am. Because of cost I really don’t want to re-take the two classes; plus it would put me back a year from my goal start date. Any advice? Thank you so much.
That’s a hard question – I think it depends a lot on the program. Basically, the lower your GPA, the more amazing the rest of your stuff needs to be to make up for it. I think 3.5 is reasonable. Some will have higher, some lower. If yours is lower, then you need to make up for it by impressing them in other areas.
If your grades are lower, you may not get in on your first application cycle. At least this allows you time to improve your GPA so that the next time around they see that you 1) you are not giving up, and 2) maybe you have added some good experience or coursework since the last time around.
Hello!!!
I have a question, during my freshman year in college I had a WF on English, it was due to some hard circumstances I was going through with my family. I also had a C in: Accounting, Economics, Org II and a C+ in Ecology .
I took 45 classes in total and I did not do great on those 5 classes .
The rest of my classes, including my prereques (physio, anatomy, biology I/II, physics I/II, Organic I, molecular cell, genetics ,microbiology… All of them are mostly As and some Bs. ) My current GPA is 3.48 Do you think I have a chance? Please help!!!
Sure, you have a chance. You will need to find a way to put their concerns about low grades to rest. The essay is a good place to do that. If there are any prereqs, particularly sciences that you got a C in, you might want to retake them and get A’s so they will see you have overcome the material.
Thank you so much for your quick response Paul!!!
I just discovered this website and can honestly say it is the most helpful resource I have come across! Thank you for all this information! I am still a sophomore in my undergraduate studies but plan on applying to a PA program after graduation. I am aware of all the prerequisite courses I need, but I am having trouble deciding on what to major in. I am sure it would probably be helpful to major in one of the natural sciences, but I would prefer having a more rounded education. How important is one’s major when applying to PA school? Do you think it would make me a less appealing candidate if I got a Bachelor’s degree in something like Psychology or even a Foreign Language? (providing that I maintained a high GPA and did well in all my science classes, of course). Or should I stick with something like Nutrition or Biology?
Hi, Ashley – we have an article and a podcast episode on those questions. Check them out – they should answer all. -P
Thank you so much! They were both extremely helpful!
Hello Paul!
All of your feedback is so helpful! Currently I have an overall 3.4 gpa and a 3.6 science gpa. I am a bit worried about my gpa because I know that it is not as competitive. In addition, I am taking 3 to 4 science courses with labs in the fall and spring semester. I have no choice but to do this so I can graduate in May. I am not sure if PA school accepts students with this gpa ? Also, I have a 4 year experience at a medical office and I am currently in a PA Shadowing Program.
Thanks, Karen! Your GPA could be higher, but you can always say that. I think you’re within range. It’ll just come down to how you come across compared to other applicants. An excellent essay will help you clinch an interview.
Hi, so right now my overall gpa is a 3.3 and my science gpa is a 3.6…how would you say my odds are looking? I also have already begun my patient care experience, and have been doing so for quite some time. The only thing is that I did get a C+ in orgo 1 and have to take orgo 2 still…will PA schools look down upon me because of that? Do PA schools see orgo or anatomy more important?
Anatomy is definitely more relevant to PA education that organic chemistry. But for many schools it’s a required science course, so you should get the best grade possible in the second semester. I try not to answer “what are my chances” questions because there are just too many variables to say with any certainty. Just do your best and let them decide.
Hello all,
I currently applied to about 6 PA schools and have been declined by 3 of the 6. I am waiting to hear from the other 3 but I think the reason I am being declined is because by science GPA is a 2.9 and my overall GPA is 3.05. I have worked in a doctor’s office for 6.5 years as a receptionist and I feel that meets the health care experience. Now I am not sure though. I have my BS in pre-physical therapy. I am not sure if I should just wait to hear back from the other 3 schools. I really hope I can get into one of them. I am wondering if I should back to a city school and redo some science courses to up my GPA. What is everyones’ opinion??? Thank you!!
We actually have an article on retaking courses. Have you read it?
In general, I wouldn’t think receptionist work it the ideal form of health care experience. If you listen to our most recent podcast on HCE, you’ll learn that you really need to be a part of the patients’ assessment and/or treatment in some way. You might ask if you can spend some time volunteering in the back or clinic portion of the office where you can be a closer part of assessment and treatment.
The other way to look at this: PA school applications are competitive, and you shouldn’t expect to get into more than one. You still have three you haven’t heard from, so you can’t say it’s poorly!
I’m so glad I found this thread! Please any guidance would be appreciated. My chem 2 grade this semester seems to be pretty locked in to a C grade, a major disappointment even with tutoring sessions. Unfortunately my chem 1 grade was also a C. The drop deadline is fast approaching for this semester. Should I drop Chem 2 and live with the W and retake in the spring? I got in a little over my head this semester, I’m also taking Microbiology w/lab and working half time. Chemistry just doesn’t seem to be clicking for me, is PA school still a possibility with this weakness?
It’s a possiblity. But if you feel you could do a significantly better time if you took it again (an A), then you might want to drop, as long as it’s a withdraw passing. If not, you might be better off riding it out.
Hello all,
I am in such a predicament! I have applied to a good amount of PA schools. I have recently been rejected by most and am having second thoughts as to if PA is really for me. My GPA is at the minimum it can be of 2.90 for science which I feel is more likely the reason why my application is getting rejected. I have had plenty of health care experience. I have worked at a doctors office going on 6.5 years and have my bachelor’s degree in pre-pt. I think it all comes down to my gpa.. I am really contemplating if I should go back to school and raise my gpa a little bit to get those grades up that I struggled in back in my early years of college. Then again I know by retaking classes my grades wont be replaced just factored in. Any suggestions??? What would you all do?? Thank you for the help.
Your guess that it’s your GPA sounds likely to be correct. If you return to school, don’t think about it as doing so to “raise your GPA.” Think of it as returning to school to get a clump of grades that will demonstrate to them that you are no longer the student that you were. To do so, nothing less than an A will serve the purpose much. Consider taking a step back to regroup before returning to school.
Paul,
Yes I have read the article that is why I am thinking is it beneficial. As far as health care experience, I have done athletic training, shadowed physical therapist both inpatient and outpatient. I have also seen some surgical cases.
That is correct I do have 3 left to hear from but kind of getting discouraged and I know I shouldn’t.. How did you know i had 3 left? The medical field is my passion.. Thought I would ask and get some suggestions.. Thank you!!
I’m not sure how I knew! But if you are really determined to get in, whatever setbacks you have are just delays, not failures. Try to think of it that way. “I’m going to get in, it’s just a question of when and what I will do between now and then.” Shadowing a physical therapist won’t be much help if you want to become a Physician Assistant. Is that your goal? If so, you should be shadowing PAs and doctors.
Paul,
I think right now it is best to wait to hear from the last 3 programs. Thank you for your thoughts and your advice to not think of returning back to school as “raising my GPA” but to demonstrate that I am highly capable of taking these classes and achieving them.
I am really determined to get into PA school and I have been for the past 2 years. Your right I am just having delays. I shadowed physical therapist and atheltic trainers. They are not considered health care experience? Would it be wise to go through EMT school then do EMT for a year and retake some classes too then reapply? How much harder is it to reapply to PA school?
Hi I’ve got a TAG to UC Davis for next year which I’m excited about. But right now I’m talking my first organic chem class I’m getting a C in the class. Do you think there is a way to retake the class at Davis if that’s allowed, I’m doing everything I can to raise it up to a B.
That’s not a bad idea. But UCD may not let you retake it since you will have taken it without failing. If this happens, you can take it at a community college during the summer (not recommended), or after you graduate.
I actually just found out that Davis lets you retake the class, but they want you to wait several years, I don’t know how many years. Retaking the class after I graduate doesn’t sound so bad, I’ve been told by friends that I should take a year before I apply to PA school to increase my healthcare experience. I could retake chemistry during that year, just one class for the semester and working part-time.
Hi Paul,
I have a couple of questions for you because I am not sure which direction I should be headed. Just got my undergrad in Biology in May, overall GPA 3.02, but science GPA is lower…like 2.7. I am taking a year off and have applied to post-bacc, graduate, and pHd programs and am now waiting on the results. The one post-bacc program I applied to is very appealing because it allows the student to make their own curriculum to basically retake classes that they feel they needed to retake along with some other classes that medical students generally take. Would you suggest a post-bac vs a masters/phd program? Also, I already have tken the GRE because I needed it for the graduate programs, and I did rather well on it (verbal-73percentile, analytical-92percentile, and quant-43percentile which is a bit lower), what typical ranges do you think is a competititve score?
Thanks!
Taken in reverse:
I don’t know what GRE scores are competitive for the schools to which you applying. I suggest you call them and ask – this varies quite a bit from school to school.
I always suggest you retake the courses you did weakly (is that a word?) in. For me, that would be the postbac program. This will allow you to show them that you have mastered the necessary material, without actually getting a masters. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist that!)
Hi Paul,
Thank you for the response. I was thinking the same thing, to do a post-bacc. I just was accepted to one yesterday so that will most likely be the route. So you would not suggest that a Master’s would really do justice here?
Hey gabby, what post baccalaureate program are you applying to? I am kind of in the same predicament accept I am applying to pa school and my science gpa is low. i was just curious what programs offer a post bac program that allows you to make your own curriculum? Thank you so much and good luck to you!!
Hey ky,
I actually did. Not think of doing a post bacc until recently and am thinking this would be the best option. Speaking of pa schools, I am also contemplating whether I would like to do pa or do school. The program I applied to is dominican univeristy about 10 miles from the Chicago. The univeristy I graduated from for my b.s also had a post bacc however they have a set list of classes they make u take and I’ve already taken them all. This post bacc program at dominican actually allows u to retake any classes u would like as they offer them all, as well as having. 5 required classes that all the post baccs must takes that would allow a professional school to see u would be fit for their schools. They even have a cadaver dissection classwhich is unique. Another requirement is an internship for class credit at a hospital that would allow a student to work closely with one specific doctor kind of like shadowing but a whole semester worth. This has even allowed students who were shadowing surgeons to sit in on surgeries.
Minus the typos I hope this helps
This sounds like something that I could do. Thank you i will check it out and if I have any questions I will let you know. Thanks again.
Hey Gabby,
do you think you can send me the link for this university that offers this post bacc program? Thank you so much!!
kylie
hey its dominican.edu . if that doesnt work just google dominican university post bacc program it should come up
Hey All,
My undergrad was nearly ten years ago (3.06) and in Animal Science. I joined the army, and after basic combat life support, I began to get interested in the PA field. Now, I’ve begun to prepare myself to apply to PA schools and I’m trying to figure out if I’m competitive. I am halfway through an MPH degree (3.8) and taking Anatomy and Physiology (looking like a 3.5-4.0). I’m currently shadowing an ER doc on the weekends and work in a military hospital as a receptionist….what else should I do? Should I retake old science courses? Or does my masters show how much I’ve matured?
Nicole
Sounds like you’ve done some great things.
BUT…
It’s not about maturing; it’s about showing that you have mastered the subjects on which the PA school curriculum is built. They can’t feel great about teaching you pathophysiology (the physiology of disease) if you haven’t proven that you understand (regular) physiology, and taking different more advanced courses doesn’t change that much. For example, they don’t want to know that you’ve aced bacterial genetics – they want to know that you get the basics of microbiology.
So if there are science prerequisites that you have done poorly in (less than a B), then you should consider retaking them.
Hey Paul!
Thank you so much for this informative site! I am currently a community college student and I have a TAG, so I am excited to start school at UC Davis this Fall. I am going to major in Human Development (B.S) and I would like to become a PA. By the time I leave my community college this semester, I will have between a 3.48-3.5 GPA. I have also been working as a Medical Assistant for the past 18 months at a Pediatric Medical Group. When I get to Davis, I will stop working as a Medical Assistant. However, I am going to join organizations that serve underserved members of the community. I have a one in mind, Bhagat Puran Singh Health Initiative, and it brings health awareness to the Sikh community. Does my GPA start over at UC Davis? What will PA programs look at when I apply? Only my UCD GPA or my community college one as well? I know you can’t determine my chances of getting into a program, but can you please tell me if I am on the right track? Should I be doing more to make myself an ideal applicant? I don’t know if age plays a factor, but by the way I’m 20 going on 21.
They will see all of your grades, and the ones from each school will be marked that way. They will sum up your grades cumulatively (for the most part) as if you were at one school the whole time.
1) Protect your GPA – doing well in your courses is of the utmost importance.
2) Have you heard about UC Davis’ student-run clinics? There are eight of them, serving people from all walks of life (drug addicts, homeless, and cultural and ethnic groups, like asians, latinos, muslims, etc. Excellent place to get some experience.
Sounds like you’re on the right track to me!
Thanks Paul!
It’s so nerve wracking thinking about getting accepted/rejected to PA school. Do you recommend meeting with PA school counselors? Do they meet with prospective students?
Also, I am taking a physiology class right now and it looks like I am going to earn a B in that class. Is this pretty much a death sentence for my application? It is the first required science class I am taking for PA school requirements.
Some schools will meet with you in person if you request to. It’s becoming more common because there are just so many people who want to get in. But I recommend you try. If they offer a webinar, as my school did, DEFINITELY participate. I learned several key pieces of information from that webinar that helped me figure out how to build an application that would be successful there.
If they won’t talk with you: call later and tell them you have several questions about that program that you feel would best be answered by a student in the program, and could they get you in touch with one. You can pick their brain about what the school is looking for. Just make sure to work this in among questions about their experience, so they don’t feel used!
Hey Paul. Quick question..
What are my chances of getting into PA school with a 3.3 GPA cumulative? Im a freshmen right now and attained a 3.3 GPA last semseter. The school I am attending is a highly regarded school in the sciences as well. Does this make a difference to local colleges that I might be applying too?
It’s very hard to estimate “what are my chances” questions. Admissions are very subjective. Some schools accept students with higher GPAs and some with lower ones. For all schools, it depends on more variables than just your GPA. Our suggestion: apply and let them decide – it’s really the only way to know for sure.
Hi Paul!
My name is Delila and I am a sophomore at West Virginia University and am currently majoring in Exercise Physiology. This semester I was enrolled into english biomechanics, chemistry 2 and trigonometry. Due to some unexpected family emergency issues, I was unable to study for my trigonometry and chemistry exam that happened to be on the same day. It turns out that I failed both of them, with such low scores that I do not believe its possible to get a C in any of them now. Do you recommend that I take 2 W’s and then take these courses in the summer now? while I can just pick up a few mid semester online classes for this current semester? I was trying to get into med school, I don’t think that will happen now so I would like to try for PA school. My overall gpa is around a 3.1- 3.2 do you think 2 W’s in one semester will highly affect my chances? Please share you’re thoughts, I am very stressed and anxious about this matter.
Hi, Delia – you shouldn’t base your decision to become a physician or a PA on your GPA – it’s definitely not that simple. These are two different careers. PAs are not “almost doctors,” and you need excellent grades to become a PA, just as you do to become a physician.
With that said, you should withdraw if you can do so with “Withdrawn Passing.” This will allow you to retake the courses and get a better grade. You will have some questions to answer about why you withdrew. If you have a failing grade when you withdraw, it will be harder to explain. But either way, we recommend you retake these courses to prove that you have mastered their material.
Thank you so much for this article and all of the other articles on here, they help a lot and have great advice. I am currently a sophomore and I did pretty bad freshman year. The worst grade I have was from first semester freshman year, a D in calculus. Would this be a class I should retake? It’s not a pre-req for any PA schools I’m looking to apply to so I’m not sure if I should take the time, statistics is though and I received a B+ in that so I don’t know if that could in a way “replace” it. I also have a C+ in genetics, gen bio 2, and gen chem 1, the rest of my grades are A’s and B’s. Considering that, does it help if I keep improving in one subject such as with chem, I received a B- in chem 2 and last semester a B in orgo 1 and am expecting at least A- in orgo 2? I’m not sure if I should retake those other classes as I seem to be doing better each semester but I don’t know if it will really make a difference when applying.
Start with the science prerequisites for PA school. Retake any in which you got a C+ or less. Then move to the others, particularly if you received a D or a fail. You COULD just skip retaking calculus since it’s not hugely relevant to PA school, but they don’t like to see any D’s, and retaking shows that you took care of your weak area and cared enough to go back and fix what you did wrong when you took it. I’ll be honest with you: if you want to become a PA, you need better than C’s in key science classes like biology, chemistry, and genetics. I suggest you consider taking a semester off, stepping back, and making sure you are 1) realistic about it, and 2) properly motivated.
Hi Paul,
Sorry if you have already answered similar questions to this one. I am currently a junior studying biology and I have decided that becoming a PA is my dream job. I know it seems cliché, but I could not want something more than this. I have approximately 500 hours as a CNA. I plan to work more this summer as well as an additional year after my senior year (hopefully reaching around 1,500-2,000 hours of DPC). I have I 3.2 GPA, but I am very hopeful that I will end with a 3.3 or 3.4 after my calculations. My science GPA will near a 3.1. I have been on a pre-med track throughout my entire college career and as a result I have faced multiple classes that have been challenging for me: Gen Chem 1= C+, Molecular Cell Biology=C, and Genetics= C. However, my grades have shown a significantly different trend my junior year and I am confident this will show through my senior year as well. Do I have a chance of getting into PA school?
Hi, Susan – your guess is as good as mine. PA programs are all different, and there are just so many variables. Your essay, the programs you are applying to, your competition – all play a factor. Just turn in the best application that you can and then let them decide.
Hi,
I am applying for a PA program in my state but I am expecting to graduate next year may. I am a little concern about not finishing my prerequisites before I apply. Do you think that its going to be a problem if I don’t finish my prerequisites before applying?
Most but not all schools will allow you to have a course or two in progress at the time that they review your application. You should call the schools you are applying to to ask for their specific policy on this issue.
The plague of the low GPA isn’t one that is easily overcome. I had a low graduating GPA 2.7 (bc of a very difficult personal/cultural issue with my family). It effected many years of undergrad and in total took me 10 years to graduate. That was a lot of hard work and it gets lumped together into one little number… Yes life isn’t fair.
Now I have been back in school to prepare for PA school and have taken classes since 2011 with a total of 45+ hours – ALL ARE A’s in all the science courses. Anatomy, Physio, Micro, Orgo 1 + 2, Biochem, Med Term, etc etc etc. but even after all this hard work, my GPA isn’t nearly as competitive. Hovering around a 3.0.
This isn’t a pity party but it is reality. I got 3 rejection letters so far, only one interview invitation (but their requirements were lower). It’s hard to swallow that something tragic from over a decade ago is still being held against me.
(I have over 4000 hours of HCE)
Again, help them (in your essay and interview) to focus on the quality of your recent coursework, and try to forget about your cumulative GPA. They see it as small minded and lame to focus so heavily on just that one number too. Your job is to give them great reasons to feel justified in overlooking it.
I wish you luck.
P
I graduated with a BS in Microbiology in August 2012 with a 3.1 science gpa and a 3.38 overall gpa. I am in the middle of EMT training and am taking A&P 1 and 2, Med. Term., Psych., before I apply to PA school. If I get A’s in these classes before I apply, what are my chances?
Also, it’s worth noting that I had a bout of health problems that required temporary hospitalization, causing my grades to drop (C+ in a few classes). I could have taken a break but did not, and my grades went up again after I recovered. Is this something I could explain on an application?
I generally steer clear of “what are my chances” questions. There are way too many variables – who you are as a person, what school you are applying to, how they look at your HCE, etc. I will say that I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t get into a PA program.
Yes, explain briefly, then move on to more positive things you have to offer the profession.
What a great site! I have learned so much just by reading all the Q&A. I have been in broadcast journalism for 10 years. After years of talking about going into the health field…I have decided to go for it! Over the years I have researched different health careers and a PA is definitely what I want to be. I have a BA and MA in communications (3.5 GPA), and so I will have to take all the science prereqs. I have a few, but not sure I excelled in them. I would have to take them over anyway since I have been out of school for so long. I will turn 36 when I am able to return to school next year. I am married and we have an awesome baby boy. My plan is to become a nurse aide while completing my prereqs and also shadow PAs and do community service when I can. I plan on not overloading my schedule (even if that means it will take longer) so I can can focus on my grades. I am just writing to make sure I am on the right track, and what links I can check out for extra advice on strengthening my application. Thanks!
I think you’re wise: the older I get, the more I see how true the tortoise and hare story is. Take your time and assure you get in.
Thank you for a great website! I’ve been exploring it to learn more about the PA profession, whether it might be the right fit for me, and what that career change would require. I believe I will need to shadow in order to decide whether to take the very looooonnnnng and difficult road of re-training/certification for good HCE (mine lapsed without use), prerequisite coursework, volunteer work, and saving for the >$70K total cost of the single local established program.
I graduated in 3 yrs with a BS in a science major from one of the top 10 ranked universities in the US and world. Unfortunately, I had a 2.7 GPA due to rushing, working, an undiagnosed medical condition that has since resolved, and the immaturity of starting college early. It didn’t stop me from getting a competitive undergrad fellowship that led to publications and into graduate school. However, I withdrew from my graduate program before finishing because I realized I didn’t want the career it was training me for, my parents were separating, and I was reacting emotionally to the death of a cousin from cancer.
In a nutshell, I have about 20 years of non-medical laboratory experience but these blights on my academic record from more than 10 years ago. I have been wanting to change careers to the healthcare field since my interaction with healthcare professionals increased with the births and various ailments of my kids. I’m not afraid to take the time to fulfill everything the local PA school recommends if shadowing convinces me PA is the right direction.
My question is whether such a low prior GPA and bad academic record really can be offset over time with better grades on prerequisite coursework (some repeated) at a community college, good HCE in a volunteer capacity over several years, and unique experiences that can be conveyed in the essay. It will take several years to prepare before even applying and I don’t want to take time from my family if I’m setting myself up for disappointment.
Hello Paul!
I am also suffering from low gpa (2.99…ouch!). However, I addressed the reasons (personal illness requiring frequent hospitalizations, parent diagnosed with cancer) in my personal statement. I have also retaken the courses that gave me trouble the first time and have received A’s. I have over 800 hours of direct patient contact, 3 amazing letters of recommendation and a 306 GRE when most schools only require a 300. The bad grades were in non-pre-requisite courses and my pre-requisite gpa is close to a 4.0. Here’s my real question: Do you think admissions would take that into consideration? Do you think the good outweighs the bad? Thanks so much!
I don’t know if the good outweighs the bad in their minds. But yes, I’m pretty sure they will take this all into consideration. Your essay should grab them and give them reason to explain it however. If you don’t wow them with a good, compelling essay, they have no reason to try to overlook your weaknesses.
Hi Paul,
I am finishing up my Junior year at a 4 year college majoring in Nutrional Science. We don’t take Biology, but i have all the other pre-requisite courses. My GPA is a 3.57 cum and with Finals this week, hoping to have a 4.0 this semester or very close. I have set up shadowing a PA in the ER this summer, however, other than that am lacking HCE. With the absence of Biology, I am limited to applying to only 3 programs. After a shadowing period I am hoping to get my foot in the door and start with my HCE at that hospital ASPA. Should I even bother applying to schools this cycle? or wait until I have accumulated HCE and take BIO to open up more options? PS. GPA competitive ? assuming I gradute with 3.6 ish
I think if I were in your shoes I would go and crush Biology. This would allow you to apply to more schools, and they’ll want to see that you are versed in it anyway.
As to how competitive you are, it’s hard to say – I’m Switzerland on those questions; it’s just too subjective, and there are soooo many variables.
Paul,
I applaud you for the outstanding work demonstrated on this website. I am presently an Associate Professor of Physical Therapy where I teach courses in PT 721 Advanced Clinical Physiology, PT 720 Applied Exercise Physiology, PT 741 Medical Pathology I, and PT 743 Medical Pathology III. I am interested in pursuing a Physician Assistant graduate program for the purpose of practicing in family medicine/primary care and working closely with patients in the area of diabetes prevention and management . The interest in diabetes prevention and management is twofold of which pertains to my academic training at the PhD level in exercise physiology and my research experiences with patients diagnosed with prediabetes and type 2 diabetes.
Paul, I am 41 years old and completed my PhD in 2008. With that being said, my overall graduate GPA was 3.56. I successfully completed 36 hours at the graduate level (600-800 level) in Advanced Animal Physiology, Human Physiology, Cell Physiology, Endocrinology, Molecular Cell Biology, Immunology, Molecular Immunology, Biochemistry I and Biochemistry II with a 3.33 GPA.
My undergraduate was subpar with a 2.74 GPA of which my area of study was in Education. Obviously, I performed at a much higher level in graduate school. I have 2 years experience in the medical field working in a Wellness and Rehabilitation center and I am currently shadowing several PA’s.
What are your thoughts regarding my academic credentials despite my subpar undergraduate GPA? I understand it may be difficult to speculate. I would appreciate your insight.
Thank you,
Eric
Hi, Eric.
Yours seems a perfect example of an application that will lean heavily on the essay / personal statement. Your essay will allow you to help them understand why your undergrad and graduate grades are so disparate. You have performed well, and your advanced degree will demonstrate that you can handle more advanced material. Have you retaken the science prerequisite courses on which you did so-so during your undergrad?
I understand that doing so might not sound appealing. But they want to know that you have mastered the general bio, physio, micro, etc. that the PA school curriculum builds on. You might get in without it, but you will need to make it clear in your essay that you are not an academic risk, or they won’t let that happen.
Demonstrating maturity and the ability to self-reflect honestly will be key in my opinion.
HI Paul,
I came across your website while looking on tips for writing my personal essay for PA applications. I had initially gone for pharmacy in my first year of undergrad. Until I’ve realized my passion to work closely with patients. I will be graduating this May with a overall GPA 2.9 in BS medical lab science. I’ve taken all pre-reqs (GPA 3.0+) with grades above B+, except AP1 where I received a C and AP2 B+. Thus, my overall gpa had suffered from my lack of interest in my major of lab science, which shows from my last 2 years of school. I know this will greatly affect my chances in pursing my career as a PA. That is why I have yet to apply for any schools. I’ve worked as a pharm tech, medical assistant and volunteer in hospitals during my school years. I’ve thought about applying to a certificated training program in fields like sonography, where I can obtain more first-hand patient care experiences while attending school. After the 2 years of school & some working experiences, then apply for PA school. Few years ago, I’ve always planned ahead and rushed into completing my requirements for PA school hoping to get my quick start. Until I’ve recently realized, I should take my time to assure my abilities in doing well in this field.
What are your thoughts for my approach after my graduation? Can you give me any advices in how I can strengthen my academic credentials despite my low overall gpa?
Thanks in advance!
A certificate program isn’t a bad idea. It will give you some great patient care experience, and if you don’t get into PA school, you’ll have a job that allows you to work with patients, which you indicated is important to you.
My one question is:
If your application’s weakness is in your GPA, wouldn’t it make the most sense to work on your academics? I mean good HCE doesn’t take the place of strong academics. Remember: it’s not so much about your cumulative GPA as it is your strength as a student when you apply. This hints at the idea of retaking some classes that you didn’t do so well on (any C, for example) and really destroy them so you can prove that (although your GPA isn’t amazing) you can handle the coursework.
That’s what they want to see.
Yes, I’ve planned to retake AP1 since it is a pre-req for PA. But the other classes i’ve gotten Cs in such biochem,histology are required in my major. And since i’m a graduate, retaking any of my major classes wouldn’t give much boost to my overall GPA. Pretty much no hope, no?
Hi,
I took intro classes to Biology and Chemistry, but I got a C+ on both of these courses. I took Chem 1 and Bio I; I received and A on both. Can these C+s affect my application. I’m currently working on last courses…
Thanks a lot…
Yes, definitely. Read this article for details.
Thanks for such a helpful article! I thought I would bite the bullet and ask you what you think my chances are of getting into my top choice PA schools: I am a rising third year at an upper-level university with a 3.45 GPA (with much lower grades my first year and nearly straight As my second year – hoping for above a 3.5 by the time I graduate). I am attempting to finish up my degree in Biology and Cognitive Science (Neuroscience concentration) in three years in order to pursue a distinguished majors thesis my fourth year while working in the university hospital as an emergency department technician. I currently volunteer with the rescue squad as an EMT-B, and do general hospital volunteering weekly. My top choice PA school is GW due to its proximity to home (would certainly help cut costs if I commuted). You’ve given wonderful advice to everyone above, and I was wondering if you think there might be anything else I could do to strengthen my application. PA school has been my goal for quite some time now, and something I am extremely passionate about, and any help would be much appreciated!
Hi, Mina –
You sound like you’re doing all the right things. We usually avoid assessing anyone’s chances of getting in without a lot more information – it’s nigh impossible to make any kind of predictions with a paragraph of information because there are just too many factors in play.
We are beginning the following services which might interest you and that enable us to provide the kind of assessment that you are asking about:
– CASPA Personal Statement Reviews: we read the statement and provide feedback and edits with an option for a phone call to do some planning.
– CASPA Application Review: we review your entire CASPA application and provide feedback on what to say, what not to say, how to say it, formatting, etc.
If you are interested in either of these services, drop us a line.
I absolutely would be! I’m not planning on applying until two cycles from now (after I’ve graduated and gained a few more months of full-time experience), but I will definitely be taking advantage of these resources. Thanks for such a helpful response!
hi there
i am a graduate from UCB with a 3.2 GPA (science GPA is a little lower). I went from a small school to UCB and that was tough for me to handle so i messed up gen chem and bio 1 (got C+ in both of them). i have been working as a PT aide for the last two years. my question is what do you suggest other than repeating the classes to make my app more competitive?
thanks
Hey, last semester I was really overewhelmed with my school schedule ( I had Orgo 1, Genetics, Physics 2, and an online class just toreach full time) I ended up withdrawing from orgo because I wasn’t passing. I’m retaking it this semester but I’m at a C right now and I’m afraid I may not pass. I am also taking anatomy this semester so it’s really hard for me to dedicate as much time to orgo as I would like because then I’m neglecting anatomy. Any suggestions? I’m starting to get discouraged and part of me feels like maybe I’m not ready for the PA program. any advice??
Rosha – do what you need to do to protect your GPA. Organic chemistry is not commonly required for PA school, although some schools do require it. If you need to withdraw, just make SURE that you are passing so you will get WD (Withdraw Passing), not WD (Failing).
Hey, so this semester I really messed up. I’m currently a second semester sophomore in college and this semester I took a really tough semester. I took too many hard classes and too many credit hours at the same time. I had the toughest professors for organic 2, organic lab and physics 2 because of the times of the classes and because of how my schedule worked out. I just wanted to know if this one semester will haunt me after all of this is over because it was just this semester.
Your grades are permanent, if that what you mean – there is no way to have them “replaced,” no matter what your school’s policy on retaking courses. Your best bet is to withdraw (passing) if you still can, or to retake it. You would be retaking it to show that you have mastered the material, not to change your original grade. It won’t really change you cumulative GPA much either. Often a bad semester can be compensated for with a strong essay that helps them to understand that the low grades you received are not representative of you as a student.
Hello, I am currently applying for schools and would like to gauge how competitive I am as an applicant for PA school. I have a science GPA of 3.0 (had to retake Organic Chemistry II after receiving a D the first time around, I received a B the second time) and a cumulative GPA of 3.4. My GRE scores are 158 for verbal, 166 for quantitative, and 4.5 for writing. I have a little over 2000 hours of healthcare experience working as a technician in a clinic and have been on a medical missions trip to Africa (will be going on another one next year). How competitive do you think I am as an applicant? Getting a little nervous about applying for schools!
I’m sorry Allison, but I try to stay away from answering questions like these. Telling people what their chances are inevitably gets me into trouble along with the people who ask. My strong advice is that you present the best application you know how, submitted, and then let them decide. I will say that I’ve done this before, and from my perspective, asking what your chances are and comparing yourself to others to try and figure it out is just one way to fill the anxious hours between now and Judgment Day.
You will either be a physician assistant, or you will not, and that answer will not be decided until you have either gotten into PA school and finished or decided that you no longer wish to apply.
I’m wondering what I can do to have a shot at getting into PA school. Here’s my dilemma:
I started college off great, making only A’s and B’s my first semester. However, in between first and second semester, my girlfriend of 2.5 years broke up with me. I was absolutely devastated, couldn’t focus, was very depressed, etc. Consequently, I didn’t do very well second semester. I got a D+ in Precalculus, and a C in Spanish 1 (all else was A’s/B’s). This pattern continued into the fall semester of my sophomore year (we had gotten back together and then she broke up with me for a second time, and I was also having family issues). I made a C in ecology/evolution, a D in general chem 2, and a C in Spanish 2. After this semester, I pulled myself together and finally got over the breakup, making A’s and B’s my second semester sophomore year. Right now I’m taking 2 summer courses (sport science and genetics), and I expect to get an A, and a B, respectively.
In total, I have 2 D’s, and 3 C’s, but everything else on my transcript are A’s and B’s. Would an admissions committee allow me to make a case for myself (since I was having some very difficult family/emotional issues going on during this time)? My overall cumulative GPA is around a 2.8, but I expect to be able to get it to a 3.3-ish by the end of college. Does an admissions committee look for trends in grades, and are they willing to be understanding of low grades if there were legitimate reasons for them (other than lack of effort, etc.). My current GPA in no way, shape, or form, reflects my work ethic or intelligence. I am extremely dedicated and was simply going through some life struggles when I made those grades.
I’m volunteering at a hospital this summer, so I hope to build my resume. I believe I’ll be able to get good letters of recommendation as well.
Thanks! Please let me know what you think, and what else I can do to improve my chances of acceptance.
There are so many applicants to PA school who have good grades, I suspect that even if you had good reasons for your bad grades, they could hinder your chances. But, there’s nothing to say that they couldn’t take a chance on you. This is why I usually recommend a very strong essay that grabs their attention. Either way, you will not know until you apply. If you apply and don’t get in, it might make sense to take some time off from applying and return to school to get some good grades. If you can show them that some of your more recent grades were consistently high (A’s) you could make a pretty good case for the fact that they don’t need to worry about you getting bad grades in PA school. I should also throw out there that personal things are going to happen to you when you’re in PA school as well, and you need to be able to handle them without folding. Case in point: I got divorced after my first semester of PA school. I went from getting A’s to getting C’s. But I did graduate. I don’t recommend it, but it is illustrative. LOL.
So, given my current situation, what would you recommend that I do to give myself the best possible chance of getting in. I can graduate with a 3.3-3.4 if I do well in my remaining courses. Also, it’s worth mentioning that I go to a prestigious university. And that sucks about the divorce… I guess it is true that life doesn’t stop regardless of whether you’re in school or not.
Hello
Im starting my first year of college this fall and was wondering what courses you would strongly recommend me taking that would make me a great candidate for PA school. I also wanted to know what other things i should do to make me stand out. I know volunteering is a big thing but i wanted to know what else i could do?
Hi, Michelle! General Chemistry and Biology are foundational to medicine. As a fun way to start and to get a nice primer for medicine, you might look at medical terminology. Medical terminology teaches you the language of medicine, and in the process, you learn a lot about diseases and treatments as well.
Hello!
My schools chemistry program goes from General Chemistry straight to Organic Chemistry. We don’t have a Chemistry I and Chemistry II is this a problem?
Also, am I required to take Orgo II in order to be able to apply to most PA schools?
Thanks!
Amanda
This is probably okay. You should confirm this with the programs you plan on applying to, but if it’s a full year course, it’s probably equivalent. Most schools don’t require organic chemistry, but some do, so again, CHECK WITH THE SCHOOLS.
Hi,
I have a question regarding Anatomy and Physiology. I just graduated with a Biology degree but my college did not offer the AP courses for some odd reason, so I am taking them at my local community college. The third of the three AP units (the school is on the quarter system) won’t be done until Jine 10 2015. If I submit my applications in may 2015, will not having this very last pre req class done impact my application?
Thanks!
No, not usually. Most schools will allow you to have 1 or 2 courses in progress, as long as you notify them when you expect them to be completed. That you are on the quarter system is even less impact — they are only missing 1/3 of the material, not 1/2.
Hey Paul, I am loving this website and inspired by your courage to never quit on your dreams. Thank you for putting the time in helping all these people.
For me, I know where I stand, I have a lot of work and years to put in before I can actually apply to PA school. My graduating GPA is a 2.52, like some other people on this forum, I had encountered some difficult and unfortunate events in my undergraduate years. Making me oblivious, neglecting the most important years of my life. It was really unfair. I am hoping PA schools will look at other aspects of application other than my GPA. I am planning to apply to and hope to get into Post-bac to ace all those classes to try and boost my GPA to at least a 3.0. It will take a while, but I am determined. I work as a EMT right now and it had definitely encouraged me to further pursuit a career as a PA. I am planning to take immunology as a university and looking for other classes PA students take to show my dedication. What other areas can I focus on besides continuing to retake all the science classes I’ve ever taken? Should I take the GRE ? Should I pursue a career as a paramedic or just remain as an EMT and focus on increasing my GPA?
Any advice will be greatly be appreciated and considered!
Thank you so much for your time!
It’s too late to raise your GPA significantly. With an entire bachelor’s behind you, any 5 or even 10 classes won’t change it much. BUT, you CAN get awesome grades from here out and then make the argument that you are a changed student and that “I haven’t had less than an A (B, whatever the case is) in over X semesters/years.
Hi there. I am currently in a predicament, and although I have full intention of calling the UC Davis PA program department, I thought I would ask here as well.
So I am a 3rd year community college student, who is probably going to be attending UC Davis in the fall of 2015. In the three years at community college, I changed my major from biology, to nursing, to biology again. I have gotten a lot of advice from family members in the science field that have told me to pick a major that plays to my strengths, and to keep my GPA up. For that reason, I am considering changing my major to Human Development. Human development would allow me to showcase my strength in biology (which has so far been overshadowed by my hard times in chemistry) and writing/critical thinking. I honestly feel like it would be more interesting for me and allow me to boost my GPA in the next two years of my upper division courses.
Unfortunately, this realization has come to me mid semester. As of right now I am taking calculus, psych survey, and ochem part 2. If I change my major from Biology to Human Development, the calculus and ochem part 2 will no longer matter for my major (especially calculus because I already fulfill the math with my A in Stats). I am thinking of withdrawing from these classes with a W, but I already have two other Ws, and I am worried that will look horrible in my application and hurt my chances greatly. I think I could possibly pull out a B in both of these courses but I am worried about the worst case scenario C. I want to protect my gpa, but then again I don’t know if adding those 2 extra Ws will be worth it.
Honestly, these Ws were more because I was figuring out what my major/career path was going to be, rather than my ability to handle the courses. I am super confused, and everything seems so conditional, I just want some sort of straight answer and direction.
Thank you oh so much,
Julia
Julia – I’m torn on your situation too. I think that in the end I would advise you to do what gets you the better grades, even if that mean changing your major a third time. I think the only major that will show one your transcripts is the one that you graduate with, but you probably ought to check that out with UCD. Withdrawn courses aren’t great, but if you aren’t failing them when you withdraw, at least you won’t get the dreaded WF. You will want to explain why you were so uncertain about your major so that they don’t think you’re indecisive. But in the end, it’s your GPA that matters most as far as I’m concerned.
I have all my pre-reqs left to take (chem I and II, bio I and II, microbiology, and genetics). I also plan to re-take Anatomy and Physiology because it has been 5 years since I have taken this course. I don’t want to space them out too much because I want to show schools that I can handle more than one hard science course at a time. Some of them recommend not to space them out because they want to see if you can handle hard material at once because this is a strong indicator how you will do well with PA school material. Any take on this?
Bah. That’s silly, in my opinion. Would you rather admit a student who got B’s in their science courses, taken over a short period or one who got A’s taken over a longer one? I would say the latter every time. Remember, even if what they say is true (and I doubt it is) they aren’t factoring in the risk. What if you over program yourself and blow an important course with a C? I bet at that point you’ll wish you protected your GPA more.
I am so glad I found this page! I currently have a C in my general chem class, and since we are nearing the end of the semester, there doesn’t seem to be much hope of me pulling a higher grade. I unfortunately way overwhelmed myself at the beginning of the semester by taking 16 credits and working full time (lesson learned), thus putting me behind in all of my classes, especially chem. I’m curious if my grade in chem will have a major effect on my chances of being accepted to PA school…?
Well, obviously it won’t help. But a C in a class isn’t the death of your application. Do your best on all your other courses and they may just overlook it.
Hello,
I currently just finished my first semester of college at URI with a major in pharmaceutical sciences. Unfortunately I know that my grades suffered and I ended up with Cs. I took bio, chem, and precal. Am I completely doomed at getting into PA school? Would it be looked down upon if I took summer labs? or even summer orgo?
Thank you!
I’ll be honest: in the short term, you’re 95-99%% to NOT get in. But if you really want to do this, think of the long term. Consider taking some time off of school to refocus, get psyched, and get some HCE. Then, when you’re ready, retake the PA school science prerequisites and get A’s. A’s. Did I say A’s? Your cumulative GPA won’t improve much, but you will be able to argue that you have gotten your head screwed on academically. They need to see that to feel safe giving you a seat, because C’s won’t get you through PA school.
Hi Paul,
You’re advice on this post really is so helpful. So I’m about to graduate next semester with around a 3.1 in both cumulative and my human biology major. I know this is not great and I do have quite a few lower grades, however I do volunteer for my school’s ambulance and recently got a job as a medical scribe in a hospital (and I did check with each school I plan to apply to and they all accept scribe work as HCE) so I know that can only help. I am going to apply to PA school this coming fall and I know my chances are not as good as they could be at getting in, but I decided to take the chance and see. If I don’t get in, how would I go about improving my grades? Is it acceptable to retake the prereqs I didn’t do so well in at my nearby community college even after I graduated? I’m just not sure how that works out after I have already graduated college. Also, do they still count this even if they say they prefer to have all prereqs done at a 4 year college? I’d appreciate your input, thanks!!
-Sara
Hello Paul,
I am looking to get into a PA program. My current situation is I am in a M.S Psychological Mental Health program on track for my License for Professional Counseling and License for Clinical Alcohol and Drug Counseling. My current GPA is a 3.4. Do PA programs really care if you have a M.S in another area while applying? Also by the time a complete the program (1year to go) I will have 1000 hours in one-on-one/ group therapy and patient care (mental health). I started taking the pre-PA classes, What would you say my odds are.
Hey, Joseph!
It’s pretty much impossible to say what your odds are. There are many factors that go into the application, and many of them are subjective. I would say that, yes, you can have a masters in an unrelated area and still get in. BUT you would need to present to them a compelling/believable story as to why you are applying. If it looks like a whim, your goose is already cooked. If, on the other hand, you can explain to them how this is the logical next step for you (in your essay and interview), then it’s totally possible. Stay tuned for our next post on developing a compelling story for your application.
Also, they may not count your therapy as “Patient Care Experience.” Depends on what setting you did it in (psychotherapy vs psychiatry, inpatient vs outpatient, your role with the patients, etc.)
Hi Paul,
I first want to let you know that I love your blog and what you are doing for prospect PA’s!
I had a question regarding my classes. I’m a full time student currently and I have an accumulative 3.75 GPa at the moment. However, this semester I was a part of a lot of extracurricular activities such as officer position, research under a faculty, volinteering, and working part time. I am currently taking genetics and I feel like I will be receiving a C in the course. I’m graduating in the fall semester, so I’m petrified that this will keep me from getting into PA school.
This will also be my first C I will ever receive.
I was just curious on your thoughts and input about my situation! Should I retake the course after I graduate?
Don’t panic. Better not to have a C, but they don’t require perfection. Just apply and let them decide.
I am a college sophmore and I am afraid my freshman year grades will preclude me from getting in to any health professional school. First semester I had a C+ in both gen chem and lab, and a B+ in bio. But second semester I had a C+ in all three, gen chem and lab as well as bio. I dont know if I can realistically get my grade up high enough to do anything with it or if I can really explain it away well on an aplication, I have test anxiety which posed a significant issue especially second semester because of the pressure I felt to go up from first semester. Please be honest about what you think.
I think your chances are slim as they stand now. You might research post-baccalaureate programs. If you take any more courses, you should avail yourself of the services of your schools disability resource center. They can test you and if you have a disability (learning, for example), they can arrange for accommodations, which can help you do much better in school. Another course might be to repeat those courses (only the ones you did C+ or lower) to show that you have mastered that material. It won’t bring your cumulative GPA up much, but you can argue that you are now a different student than you once were, more mature, etc.
Hey Guys,
So I was wondering what any of you think of my situation. I am a post-bac pre-med wanting to get into PA school. I totally messed up this semester and got a B- and Gen Chem 2 and a C in Cell and Molecular Biology. I got a job as a CNA during the semester and it was a bit stressful with orientation and such. My bio class took a hit because of it and I just never knew what to expect on quizzes or exams! EVER! I am worried because I had a 3.26 as a psych major for my undergrad. I had some personal issues during school and ended up with 5 Ws which I know must look awful.
I was talking to my friend that is also a post back and she said that retaking courses does not look good for people in my situation so I am feeling really, really discouraged :(
https://mypatraining.com/staging/staging/staging/retaking-classes
Hello, First off kudos on the informative site. I have read most of the Q&A threads so I will try to refrain from asking redundant questions.
A little history on myself, I earned an AA degree and transferred to UCSD with a 3.86 GPA and earned my BA in Urban Planning with a 3.76.
While in Junior College I received a C in “Intro” to Gen chem. I wasn’t planning on going to PA school that long ago. So my first question is should I retake the intro chem? With my high GPA does it matter?
Additionally I have fallen into a common theme here. I am in Gen Chem 1 with lab. I am working full time and just busy with family (dad had a cardiac event). So you quessed it I have a C right now and am just a little behind. I know it is crucial to make a decision to drop the course or shoot for a B. I can drop with a W until 10.22.15 .. I am leaning towards dropping. And maybe even taking intro to chem over to get the fundamentals down and refresh my math since my undergrad was a social science.
Please please give me some advice on dropping with a W or just trying to stick it out. Also I may end up with a C to be honest if I cannot grasp the more complex concepts at the end of the course without adequate time to study. I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot starting my prereqs after having such a solid GPA in undergrad.
I am also an EMT on the side of my main job.
Thanks in advance for your help.
P.S. I read the Protecting your GPA article and the Retaking classes article.
Best Regards,
I answered another version of this question just now, but just in case I didn’t hit it, you don’t NEED to retake your one C course with your GPA, but if you don’t get in, this might be something you WISHED you had done. Don’t hold me responsible, but I think I would let it go, if it were me.
Hi Paul,
I’m nearly a senior at my university. I am a pre-med biology major. I came into college with credits from high school that I did well in. For the most part my grades are decent I have 3.5 gpa. I did get a C+ and a C in gen chem 1&2. I was going the pre-med route so I took physics 1 and Orgo 1 along with a couple of bio classes this semester. Orgo really beat me up and it didn’t help that I was taking it from a notoriously difficult professor so I dropped and will have a W on my transcript. I’m looking to graduate by December of 2016. I’m thinking of just bypassing Orgo and taking an elementary Orgo-biochem class that’s offered. I do really well in all my bio classes but chemistry is not my best subject.
Do you think it’s wise to to go this route for chemistry?
I also have been volunteering at the local ER for sometime now and I also volunteer at an emergency shelter foot clinic and I have management experience at my job. I’m also planning on shadowing a PA soon.
Does it seem like I’m on the right track to get into a pa program?
Thanks,
Jena
Yes, you sound like you’re on the right track. Protect your GPA. Organic isn’t a requirement at most PA schools. You might be better off skipping it and retaking general chemistry, since that’s a foundational course. Get good at the foundational courses before moving on to upper division courses.
Hi,
I was wondering cause I have a really bad gap of 2.4 right now but if I improve it can I still apply to PA school or do I have to have had maintained a certain gpa? Also, I am going to do the EMT program next semester and if I want to work and go to school does taking one class affects the chances of going to PA school?
Vicente.
First, you need good grades to become a PA. Not perfect, but it’s very competitive, and there are many applicants with great grades.
Second, EMT is great. But if your grades are already poor, why would you want to work while taking a class? Sounds like too many other things have taken you away from your studies already. Focus on what you want, LIKE A LASER, and you’ll get it (eventually, at least). Just my two bits worth.
Paul,
I’m sitting around a 3.6 right now. I know CASPA averages grades, but my pre-reqs are all As (mostly A-) or Bs (mostly B+). I don’t know if I should retake classes to up my GPA before I apply.
My first years at college (over 5-7 years ago), I did terrible. They’re only a couple classes and I’m a great student now. I know that my turn around will show that I’m capable. Should I retake classes that have no relevance to my degree or prerequisites? I don’t want to drag down my cumulative GPA.
Thanks,
Ashley
I wouldn’t. Apply and send them a great essay that explains how and why you are a much different student than you once were. You’re still above average for new PA students (3.2-3.3). Also, you aren’t going bring your cumulative GPA noticeably — you have too many grades to average them with. So if you retake courses, do it so that you can show that you’ve mastered those subjects, not to increase your cumulative GPA.
Hi,
Pre PA like most people on here. I have a relatively high cumulative GPA (3.5) as well as being a college athlete on top of school. I unfortunately took a stumble with physics and received a C+ (Yes I understand thats not good). Now I cant blame it on the teacher but to be fair it was his first semester teaching and was fired after that semester (most of the class failed). I haven’t taken OChem and I am terrible at chemistry. Now i’m faced with the decision do I save my GPA and just take anatomy and kick butt. Or do I take both Anatomy and Ochem and potentially send my GPA down the toilet. I don’t want to take OChem if possible but I will if it gives me a competitive edge is it necessary for most schools? or will I still be able to get into decent PA schools without it. Advice?
Organic chemistry won’t give you any “competitive edge.” It will only help you by allowing you to apply to more schools — because you can apply to the ones that require organic chemistry. I wouldn’t stress about the C+. Physics is for most schools NOT a required science. Do whatever you need to do to be certain your grades stay excellent. You don’t take a risk that will be with you for life if it doesn’t go the way you want it to.